Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

[DreamStalker]

No, the flushing niacin is not necessary to help form ATP. If you read the Dr. Myhill info, she specifically recommends niacinamide. I could USE the effects of the flushing niacin, but right now that is not what I'm after. If you will pardon the pun, I'm going to wait until I'm "flush" with the niacinamide before I stop it and go back to the flushing form of niacin.

The flushing form of niacin, also known as nicotinic acid (NIcotinic ACid VItimin=NIACIN--they named it as such because they didn't want people to think nicotinic acid meant that cigarettes had vitamins in them!) is converted by the body to niacinamide. It is this conversion that causes the flushing, from what I've read. Here is a quote from Myhill's online "book" about how niacinamide affects ATP:

Part B - Oxidative phosphorylation – the recycling of ATP
from ADP
This part of the test looks at the rate at which ADP is converted back to ATP. The whole process is
done by Krebs citric acid cycle (KCA) (dig out those old “O level” biochemistry books at once!)
followed by oxidative phosphorylation. There is lots of potential for things to go wrong here! The
bits we know about (and there will be others!) which may make oxidative phosphorylation go slow
include:
Vitamin B3 is vital as the raw material to make NAD – most people replete levels on 500mgs of
niacinamide, but some people seem to need 3,000mgs daily to get a result. At levels above 500mgs,
liver function tests need checking every month for three months, then every 6 months. Low B3 may
also be a symptom of poor function of Kreb‟s citric acid cycle. This is because NAD is a functional
test and it does not just reflects B3 status. The job of KCA is to take energy from acetyl groups and
convert it into NADH, which is then of course converted to NAD in the process of driving oxidative
phosphorylation. Therefore, to see normal levels of NAD needs not only an adequate supply of B3,
but also a functioning Kreb‟s citric acid cycle

So, the niacinamide helps recycling of ATP by making more NADH and making the Krebs citric acid cycle more efficient. So, it doesn't directly make ATP, but it does help recycle it more efficiently, which is critical for energy production. Look back several posts and you will find a link to the Myhill information and you can read the whole paper yourself, if you choose. But I warn you, it can be hard to understand in places, even if you have a degree in biology. And believe me, my biology is rusty!

So, yes niacin is a good thing for a lot of people and I certainly intend to return to it, but for now, my goal is to maximize energy potential.

jen

I think there are NAD supplements available. Back when there was a big scare over the pig flu (a corporate sham for another post), I came across a suggestion to instead take loads of vitamins D3 and C in addition to NAD rather than risking your health with the poorly tested flu vaccine.

Why not bypass the niacinamide and take NAD?


EDIT:


I just now read your post above.

[socknitster]

Yeah, I am taking NADH, but it is very expensive. When I'm done with this bottle, I will likely continue with just niacinamide for a while unless I suddenly discover it was making a huge difference.

Jen

[socknitster]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... -zone.aspx

DreamStalker,

I just read this article by Dr. Mercola on the effects of fructose on insulin. It sounds like it produces the effect you are experiencing--low/normal glucose levels with high insulin levels. You should read this article and evaluate your diet. Perhaps you are consuming more than 25 grams of fructose per day as he mentions is the threshold for this effect? I must admit I ignored Mercola's claims about fructose and still consumed small amounts of agave syrup on occasion, but now I think I won't buy it anymore and will pay more attention to my fructose consumption. I don't consume pre-packaged foods because of my dairy allergy. My main source of fructose would be my homemade fruit/vegetable juices that I make daily. I may need to reevaluate how much fruit I'm putting in!

I hope this helps you with your mystery!

Jen

[socknitster]

viewtopic/t53927/Wow-Crazy-Polysom-Results-Folks.html

Just posted a new thread about my newest PSG. Its an interesting read, folks!

Overall, doing better. I decided to give the NADH another month, even though I saw no improvement in the first month. I looked up the study again and it showed that most people didn't see results until they had been taking it 2 months.

I am continuing to take massive doses of magnesium and I do think that the muscle cramping is beginning to lessen somewhat. It is not dramatic, but maybe with time I will see results if I'm patient.

Due to my psg results I am about to make some major changes to my meds. Could be a roller coaster ride around here. Ugh. LOL!

[DreamStalker]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... -zone.aspx

DreamStalker,

I just read this article by Dr. Mercola on the effects of fructose on insulin. It sounds like it produces the effect you are experiencing--low/normal glucose levels with high insulin levels. You should read this article and evaluate your diet. Perhaps you are consuming more than 25 grams of fructose per day as he mentions is the threshold for this effect? I must admit I ignored Mercola's claims about fructose and still consumed small amounts of agave syrup on occasion, but now I think I won't buy it anymore and will pay more attention to my fructose consumption. I don't consume pre-packaged foods because of my dairy allergy. My main source of fructose would be my homemade fruit/vegetable juices that I make daily. I may need to reevaluate how much fruit I'm putting in!

I hope this helps you with your mystery!

Jen

I must have missed this back when you posted it.

It does not apply to me. I have been on low-carb for a year and a half ... no sugar, no fructose, no carbs (except for a couple of beers maybe once a month).

[socknitster]

I have an update to my ongoing battle with chronic fatigue syndrome. I've been doing better. Been settling in to my new meds ok. Still having lots of issues with irritibility, which the doctor thinks is caused by anxiety and I think he is right. I've switched from SSRI to wellbutrin and then added lyrica in a small dose (which is currently undergoing research here in the US as an anxiolitc--already approved for that in the EU). I'm currently taking 2 50g pills a day, which is only 1/3 the dose used for fibromyalgia. I'm usually very sensitive to drugs so I wanted to start slowly and didn't want to have more issues with sedation. I'm tolerating it very well and my sleep seems to be improving and seems to be slightly more refreshing. Also, I'm starting to feel tired in the evenings which is a very good thing. That used to be my most energetic time of day which was problematic with getting enough sleep. I used to stay up late and use that time to get things done. Now I can go to bed at a decent time and get more rest. My basal body temp still is very low--around 96.8 degrees. I hope that changes soon.

But I have something new to share with you--something that may help many of you, especially if you have bowel problems of any kind, including IBS. This is brand-new, cutting edge research out of Australia and the UK. It may affect as many as 40% of the population. What is it? FRUCTOSE MALABSORPTION.

It isn’t really a disease, from everything I have read it is simply a variation on normal—some people just can’t absorb as much fructose as other people. As much as 30-40% of central Europe has this. The tricky part is the fact that the modern diet is FULL of fructose and it is in foods that you NEVER would have thought. For example, the carbohydrate in wheat is composed of long chains of fructose called fructans. So, when you eat a lot of wheat, even whole wheat, you are getting a lot of fructose! So, here is the thing. The bowel can only absorb so much fructose and when it gets past the point where it can’t absorb anymore it causes SERIOUS bowel problems—it is now being investigated as the number one cause of IBS! And it explains why a lot of people think they have celiac and then test negative but KNOW they feel better when they avoid wheat.

This can actually happen to anyone (fructose malabsorpters or not)—remember when you were a kid and the peaches or watermelon or whatever fruit tasted so good you just wanted more and more and your parents or grandparents warned you not to eat too much because you would get a belly ache? That is why—the average person can handle about 25 g of fructose in a “meal” and after that—tummy troubles are the result! And just THINK about all the high fructose corn syrup that is present in processed foods! Yikes—most Americans are consuming way too much fructose, regardless of whether they have fructose malabsorption or not! Think of the people guzzing HFCS sweetened soda or fruit juices all day!

So, what does this have to do with me and my symptoms? Well, I’ve ALWAYS had digestion issues. I had IBS for years and they ran all kinds of tests (and found nothing). In more recent times, I’ve just had very frequent loose stools—ongoing every day. I don’t have the pain and discomfort of IBS anymore, I just go A LOT more than other people. It became my new normal and since it wasn’t painful and I have so many other things to think about, I just ignored it as a “symptom.”

Turns out, all these bowel problems (caused by fructose malabsorption) leads to not absorbing the nutrients from your food—most notably I have read that the top three nutrients that become deficient with this syndrome are: FOLIC ACID, tryptophan (the amino acid that turns into serotonin--deficiencies would cause mood problems) and zinc. Well, I’ve seen improvement in my symptoms when I included ALL THREE of those in my supplement regimen. Noticable improvement! And goodness knows that I may have various other deficiencies as well, which could be contributing to my symptoms.

All this, when I’ve been EATING VERY WELL. Eating whole grains, fruits and vegetables like I know I’m supposed to. I haven’t bought white bread for probably 10 years! I mean really—just before I stumbled across this information, I was thinking 2 things: all my research into all the various individual symptoms I have keep coming back to DIGESTION. Food allergies are caused by poor digestion. All the nutrient deficiencies are associated with poor digestion. And I kept thinking these nutritional deficiencies just do not make any sense because I eat so well! Then I was reading the Wikipedia article about alternative treatments for depression and came across the words: fructose malabsorption. Totally stumbled upon it!

So, I’m going to give this new diet a try--it is called the FODMAPS diet. It is a really new discovery. Most of the research is going on now in the UK and Australia. There is very little information out there. I have found one self-published book and one book written for people with IBS (I only bought the latter because the first one didn't look terribly accurate in its info). I bought that book to learn more about the diet. I need to know how much fructose is in various foods so I can plan my diet accordingly. Just in the past 2 days, I have made only minor adjustments to my diet and have already seen an improvement in my bowel habits (of course that could be only a coincidence). It is very early, but I am very, very hopeful. I should be able to continue eating a very healthy diet, just making slightly different choices and eating less of certain things so as not to overdo it. Juicing may not work for me because my favorite thing to juice with all my veggies is apples which has a lot of fructose. Time and experimentation will tell!

I am just at the beginning of the learning curve on this. But I just HAD to tell all my friends here, since this is potentially such a common thing, and requires only dietary changes to try to cure--the best way to cure anything in my opinion! (I hate taking prescription drugs but will do it if I have to to stay sane!) You all do your research and tell my what you think! I sincerely hope this information helps someone else. That is why I'm here, after all.

Jen

[Julie]

Hi, this may be a dumb question because I can't remember all of your posts, but to me fructose malabsorption sounds very much like it could be related to (if not even another name for) celiac disease, which is not uncommon in OSA. Have you been tested for that?

[kb5sxryahoo]

I don't know if I can be of much help. I would like to tell my experience. I have some health issues. I have been Bipolar since the early 90s. I have had a sleep disorder for almost as long. I had been taking Zyprexa for the bipolar and Concerta for the sleeping disorder. I have been stable for 11 years. In early May of this year I told my regular doctor that the Concerta wasn't letting me fall a sleep. He changed it to Adderal XR. VERY BIG MISTAKE! My life has been a living hell since. I am a school teacher and I work part time at Walmart. I was off work for 3 months. I still think it was the Adderal XR. My bipolar got out of hand and I had to change meds. I am now on a CPAP machine since the first of Aug. They keep having to increase the saturation. I have missed 3 days of work this week because I can't wake up. Provigil which is usually prescribed to Sleep Apnea doesn't help! I started taking Concerta today and it has helped a lot.
Now my solution. A lot of prayer and patience!

Tami

[socknitster]

Hi, this may be a dumb question because I can't remember all of your posts, but to me fructose malabsorption sounds very much like it could be related to (if not even another name for) celiac disease, which is not uncommon in OSA. Have you been tested for that?

Celiac disease is an intolerance to the protein in wheat called gluten which causes damage to the intestines in some way.

Fructose Malabsorption has to do with fructose, a fruit sugar, as well as some other carbohydrates. The term for them collectively is called FODMAP which stands for: Fermentable Oligo-, Di-, and Monosaccharides And Polyols.

They are not related because one is caused by a protein and one is caused by a carbohydrate, but they have a food in common that can be a trigger. Those who have celiac cannot tolerate ANY amount of wheat or gluten--indeed it is toxic to them. Those with fructose malabsorption can tolerate small amounts of wheat carbohydrates when all of their trigger carbohydrates are also kept to minimal amounts in the diet. Proteins have nothing to do with it.

I have never been tested for celiac. My doctor does not think it fits my other symptoms. Fructose Malabsorption is a relatively new discovery. First published about in 2007, I think, but I'm not sure. I have a lot of research yet to do, but I'm well underway.

The problem that occurs with these FODMAP carbohydrates is, the small intestine cannot absorb all the fructose and other FODMAP carbs in the diet--even though this is the part of the digestive tract where they are normally absorbed. They then travel on to the large intestine, where our NORMAL intestinal flora has a feast with all the extra carbs. What happens then usually is the large intestine fills with water and the bacteria produce tons of gases (their normal biproducts--that is where "gas" comes from). Then the individual will suffer intense cramping from the swollen bowel as well as watery diarrhea and profuse gas. Vascilating between constipation and diarrhea is the result and that is also the definition of IBS. That is why those who have learned about this believe it could be one of the causes of IBS. Indeed, the FODMAP diet has already helped many, many people in the short time it has been studied.

Jen

[socknitster]

Tami,

I hope you feel better soon! Sometimes it takes a while for the docs to get the "cocktail" right. Keep looking for answers!

Jen

[socknitster]

I forgot to add that there is a test for Fructose Malabsorption, but I don't know yet how common the test is or if it is available everywhere. It is a breath test for hydrogen. If these bacteria in the large intestine are feasting on these excess carbs that aren't supposed to be there, the gas they produce, some of which is hydrogen, dissolves in the blood and is carried to the lungs where we breathe it out. It can then be measured empirically. I think this test is done thru a gastroenterologist and I do not believe the test is new. I think that there is an older diagnosis called Carbohydrate Malabsorption that they used this test for. I do not know if the two things are one and the same (and they have simply realized which carbs are causing the problems) or if there is a distinction, but the test is the same regardless.

[echo]

Jen, tahnks for sharing. This is very interesting. I tested negative for celiac so of course the doc said i have IBS , lacking another diagnosis! I always get bloated if i eat too many carbs or even fruit. I always thought I was just sensitive to sugar, but this actually makes a lot of sense. I read Dr Mercola now and then, he has some recent article about how we consume way too much fructose and in fact how fructose can be very damaging.. worthwhile reading. Apparently we shouldn't really be consuming fructose at all, but glucose... but this was more in relation to processed foods/sugars. An yes, HFCS is the devil's invention!!

Have you seen further improvements since your last post?

[socknitster]

Echo,

Yes, I have continued to see improvement. The only backsliding I did was the day after a very busy day where I was eating on the run and did consume more wheat than I had been. That next day I spent more time in the bathroom but I recommitted to being cautious and things improved by the very next day. One normal bm a day now. Sorry if that is TMI.

I also have regained my old level of energy. I'm still irritible but my patience is much improved, thank God! I've started a tai chi and a chi gong class and getting all my household chores done with energy to spare for walks and bikerides now. That is a pretty big improvement over 6 months ago (when I didn't have the energy to walk my son 3 blocks to school and drove him instead)! Some of this happened gradually but there was a sudden burst of improvement with the reduction in wheat.

I replaced my kids' wheat cereals with oat based cereals. Crackers and cookies, what little they eat, have been replaced as well. Brown rice (chew well), amaranth, quinoa, buckwheat, teff are all FODMAPs free.

Spelt and Kamut ARE WHEAT. Don't be deceived by the labeling. They are just another variety of wheat, not a separate grain and they have the fructans in them.

I am aware of Dr. Mercola's campaign against HFCS and especially Agave syrup which has tons more fructose (and its being touted as a healthy alternative to sugar!). But did you also know Mercola thinks NO ONE should eat grains? Yup he is anti-grain of all kinds as well. I don't think he is right on that one. But it does point to the fact that wheat (the most commonly consumed grain) really doesn't agree with a lot of people for various reasons and maybe that is where he came up with it. Perhaps patients he suggested to get off wheat got lots better and that is how he came up with the idea. Dunno.

I think frucose, within fruits, in moderation is fine. We just have to use good judgement. And it depends on the individual. Myself, I cannot eat grapefruit or prunes even in small amounts--within an hour I'll be running to the bathroom. Everybody is different.

I just made homemade applesauce today. The apples I used were very tart so I added some sugar--but I used dextrose (glucose) which will help the bowel absorb the fructose that is present in the apples. Apples have twice the fructose as glucose. You need a 1 to 1 relationship between the two sugars to really absorb the fructose and you need to eat it in small quantities, which we will be doing with the applesauce. It will be dessert this fall/winter. That is only one way (and a rather devilish way) to get around the fructose problem. You can see I've done a lot of research. You can get dextrose/glucose in health food stores or online. I bought mine on Amazon.

BTW, I emailed Mercola thru his website to tell him about fructose malabsorption. Dr. Teitelbaum as well. Look for THAT in a newsletter coming in your inbox soon, lol!

[echo]

That's great news!

What about rye and corn? My allergy to wheat has come back so I've gone totally wheat free as of this past month, and i feel much better (no more migraines)! So now i use GF bread (made from corn and potato) and supplement with rye and corn crackers. They seem to be ok for me. I would guess rye doesn't have much fructose? My blood sugar seems to have stabilized a bit, as well as the BM movements you also refer to. Never TMI here

I will look into FM more when i have more time.

[socknitster]

The truth is funny. I hate rye so it didn't stick in my mind one way or another. You will have to look it up! Sorry!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55421&p=519615#p518698


Above, find a link to a thread that I started ABOUT fructose malabsorption. There I give a list of links where you can find more information easily! It took me about a day to complile that list of the best links, so please save some time in your search and peruse those sites first!

All my best,
Jen