CompSA, Hypoventilation, PLMs, Bradycardia and Hypotension?

[Muffy]

#2 Alpha intrusions are thought to be pain related, right? Where are BB's alpha intrusions in relation to his PLM's? The reason I'm asking is I'm remembering when my movements, due to medication effect, were happening at a stage where I was aware of them though not awake. There was crescendo of a tension sensation in my legs that culminated in an explosive movement. Just wondering if the sensations prior to a limb movement could be seen as alpha intrusions.

Alpha intrusion is generally associated with SWS, and is different from the alpha of wake and arousals. It is a background rhythm.

A sleep event that often signals the coming of a PLM is a "K-complex".

Muffy

[kteague]

A sleep event that often signals the coming of a PLM is a "K-complex".Muffy

Ok, this is all new information to me. Can you describe what such a sleep event might look like? Is this something outside the within-a-half-second arousal?

[Muffy]

A sleep event that often signals the coming of a PLM is a "K-complex".Muffy

Ok, this is all new information to me. Can you describe what such a sleep event might look like? Is this something outside the within-a-half-second arousal?

The K-complex in this case (cause K-complexes also signify Stage 2 sleep) is part of the arousal process (K followed by alpha pattern, AKA K-alpha). Association rules apply.

Muffy

[blizzardboy]

Thanks once again for taking plenty of time here to both help and teach, Muffy.

Hear, hear. Thank you very much indeed!
Last night I attempted to further increase the baseline ventilation provided to me by the ASV by lowering EEP to 9.0 and increasing PS to 5->10 (yes, I realise these are big shifts from EEP=9.6 and PS=4->9) Interesting to see four 5-minute-ish periods of relatively stable respiration during the night: http://users.adam.com.au/sixsome/ASV/0510/052210/. That means I had a total of 20 minutes of stable-ish respiration for the night - you beauty!

Alpha intrusions, thank you for that information Muffy. It really is exciting for me to actually be shown something out of whack with my sleep data apart from OSA and "instability". So can we safely say that I suffer from OSA (and not CompSA) in parallel with a deep-sleep-disruption "...problem" (watch this space for the "root of the..."), i.e. that my centrals are perfectly healthy and normal? Cheers,

[jnk]

You've got alpha intrusion.

Any chance this could be related to the SSRI, or a withdrawal therefrom?

http://books.google.com/books?id=6mxFXO ... &q&f=false

[kteague]

At the risk of confirming what may have previously been only suspected - I'm as lost as a ball in high weeds. Is a K-complex caused by those sensations I described leading to a movement? Are you saying the sensations I described are a known phenomenon? Can one see a K-complex indicating a PLM is impending then see an arousal, yet the arousal not be counted with LM arousals as it was too far in advance of a movement? Can an arousal interfere with the onset of a movement? Cause if so, theoretically one could have arousals related to their PLM's but never attributed to them.

I'm sorry, I digress. Back to BB - I don't think I'm gonna be able to get my brain around the technical aspects of BB's case, but I do have a bottom line question. Is there anything in BB's recordings that could correlate with the pre PLM sensations I described or are his findings unequivocally unrelated to his PLM's in any way?

[blizzardboy]

Well, you sure won't see ME making any comments about the 18-for-18 pressure points and the alpha wave intrusions...

Hi -SWS, The only problem with spearheading my alpha-intrusion-cause team with FM is that I only developed joint pain after the PSGs, in particularmid-way through the S9 trial (3 weeks after the ASV PSG.) But I could have had 18/18 prior to the PSGs, just no joint pain to report at that time. Cheers,

[dsm]

Muffy

Very impressive analysis. Greatly appreciated and a real learning opportunity for us.

Thanks

DSM

[blizzardboy]

You've got alpha intrusion.

Any chance this could be related to the SSRI, or a withdrawal therefrom?

Hi jnk, Hmmm...very interesting indeed. Fluoxetine is already scheduled to walk the mile. If, as it would seem, that my arousals are associated with alpha-polluted delta waves then presumably I will see an improvement in respiration stability (as recorded in my DLs) once the source of intrusions is quelled/squashed/terminated e.g. if fluoxetine is my problem and I wean off and withdraw then I should see an improvement in my DLs with the need for an other PSG. Sound reasoning? Cheers,

[blizzardboy]

You've got alpha intrusion.

Any chance this could be related to the SSRI, or a withdrawal therefrom?

Hi jnk,. Very interesting indeed. Is that a reputable source? Cheers,

[jnk]

You've got alpha intrusion.

Any chance this could be related to the SSRI, or a withdrawal therefrom?

Hi jnk,. Very interesting indeed. Is that a reputable source? Cheers,

Please don't read too much into my question for Muffy. It was only a question, not an assertion.

The source is reputable, but by its wording, may have only been more making the point that alpha-intrusion continues when using an SSRI, not making the point so much that the SSRIs actually cause the alpha-intrusion. Although, I'm sure they do cause some change in EEG.

Anyway, I just wonder if maybe there is a chance that another form of antidepressant may be more effective at actually helping with alpha-intrusion. But I don't know. That stuff is over my head.

My post was only to bring up a point that might be helpful to Muffy's thought process (since Muffy is used to noticing signs of drug effects in PSGs), not to get in the way of it.

jeff

[blizzardboy]

His SWS is just saturated with it, but right, the literature is pretty sketchy about what to do with it when you find it.

Well... that last part is almost an understatement. There is some chatter about Xyrem, however:

"GHB (read Xyrem) is also produced as a result of fermentation, and so is found in small quantities in some beers and wines." Can it be true? Yes! BB gets on his bike to buy a case of red...

[-SWS]

Well, you sure won't see ME making any comments about the 18-for-18 pressure points and the alpha wave intrusions...

Hi -SWS, The only problem with spearheading my alpha-intrusion-cause team with FM is that I only developed joint pain after the PSGs, in particularmid-way through the S9 trial (3 weeks after the ASV PSG.) But I could have had 18/18 prior to the PSGs, just no joint pain to report at that time. Cheers,

I think the strategy of first exploring/addressing primary candidates for AWI sources is perfectly viable, BB. You now have alpha wave intrusions, positive for all 18 pressure points, some residual fatigue, but fortunately little or no pain. I think that's extremely encouraging.

However, if the residual fatigue fails to clear despite all exploratory efforts, then I'd consider keeping tabs on the AWI via PSG and even experimentally treating the AWI itself. Bear in mind there's also the possibility of subliminal pain---which can conceivably alter sleep and EEG architecture...

But I agree that it makes sense to first address known AWI sources.

"GHB (read Xyrem) is also produced as a result of fermentation, and so is found in small quantities in some beers and wines." Can it be true? Yes! BB gets on his bike to buy a case of red...

Cheers!

[blizzardboy]

I think the strategy of first exploring/addressing primary candidates for AWI sources is perfectly viable, BB. You now have alpha wave intrusions...

AWI (Alpha Wave Intrusions; erroneously known as the Arousal-Wake Index) => maybe I now have another clear target in my duck shoot of sleep gremlins? Cheers,

[-SWS]

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The All World Informatics dispensary forgot Alpha Wave Intrusions (AWI) again...