OT: Vitamin D

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Muse-Inc
Posts: 4382
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:44 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

OT: Vitamin D

Post by Muse-Inc » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:44 pm

This thread is all about vitamin D as it seems there are quite a few of us supplementing D. We might as well share good articles-links-etc that we find.

My test showed a low level and over a yr later still not optimal, so I continue to increase the amt I take. Sunlight would be ideal, BUT I take a drug that has photosensitized my skin sch that I burn in <6 mins of sunshine .

I read cardiologist William Davis at http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/. Scroll down the left-hand side; he's got 75 blog posts about vitamin D! Interesting excerpt that applies to me:
Her friend, Linda, had added vitamin D to her daily supplements. Because she'd had a vitamin D blood level of 22 ng/ml, she was taking 6000 units per day.

However, Linda also had a high cholesterol value with a total cholesterol of 231 mg/dl. After several months on the vitamin D, she had another cholesterol panel. Total cholesterol: 256 mg/dl.

"It must have been the vitamin D! So I stopped it right away."

Is this true? Does vitamin D raise the level of blood cholesterol? Yes, it does. But it's a good thing. Let me explain.

Followers of The Heart Scan Blog know that total cholesterol is really a mix of 3 other factors:

Total cholesterol = LDL cholesterol + HDL cholesterol + triglycerides/5

This is the Friedewald equation, still used today in over 95% of cholesterol panels. So, by the Friedewald equation, anything that increases LDL, HDL, or triglycerides will increase total cholesterol.

One of the spectacular changes that develops over a year of taking vitamin D is that HDL cholesterol skyrockets. While sensitivity to this effect varies (probably on a genetic basis), HDL increases of 10, 20, even 30 mg/dl are common. A starting HDL, for instance, of 45 mg/dl can jump up to 65 or 70 mg/dl, though the effect requires up to a year, sometimes longer.

Vitamin D can also reduce triglycerides, though the effect is relatively small, usually no more than 20 mg/dl or so. Likewise, the effect on LDL is minor, with a modest reduction in the small type of LDL.

So the dominant effect of vitamin D from a cholesterol standpoint is a substantial increase in HDL. Looking at the equation, you can see that an increase in HDL is accompanied by a commensurate increase in total cholesterol. If HDL goes up 25 mg/dl, total cholesterol goes up 25 mg/dl.

So Linda is absolutely correct: Vitamin D increases cholesterol--but it's a good thing that reduces risk for heart disease and is an important part of a coronary plaque-reversal program.

This is yet another reason why I advocate elimination of total cholesterol on lipid panels. There is no useful information in the total cholersterol value, only the potential for misinformation.
ResMed S9 range 9.8-17, RespCare Hybrid FFM
Never, never, never, never say never.

wearysoul
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:37 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by wearysoul » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:25 pm

Muse-Inc,

Very interesting blog excerpt about vitamin D and its effect on cholesterol. I'm taking vitamin D and didn't know that it could increase HDL. A good thing.

What form of vitamin D do you use? Is it a "dry" tablet form, a gel cap, or drops? If you're having trouble reaching an optimal level of vitamin D, you might try changing to a gel cap or drops. When I took tablets, I found it really hard to raise my vitamin D level. Then I tried a gel cap and most recently, drops. I've had success with both of these. I wonder if the "wet" forms are somehow easier to absorb. I've been using the Carlson brand and I like it.

Here is a web site on vitamin D that I ran across several years ago. The author of the site is a nutritionist; she seems to have a more comprehensive knowledge of vitamin D than anyone I've heard or read. Though many people are deficient and struggle to raise their levels, I like that she stresses that it is possible to get too much vitamin D and that we need to be tested regularly.

http://sunlightandvitamind.com/

wearysoul

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: started CPAP 6-16-09; have used ASV, oral appliance, and Winx; currently on APAP

User avatar
Catnapper
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:22 pm

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Catnapper » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:39 pm

I am interested in the research on Vitamin D also.

Yesterday, CNN had the following article about D and how low levels could increase depression in people who have heart problems. There is other info on D besides that in the article.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/16/mo ... index.html

There is a strong correlation with low levels of Vitamin D and the incidence of cancer, particularly breast and prostate cancers. This was interesting to me because I found out I had extremely low Vitamin D right after I found out I had breast cancer. Too little and too late.

Lots of research can be found about what proper Vit D can do for you. For years there has been information about bone health. Most people learned in health class somewhere in school that you have to have enough of that vitamin to prevent rickets. That is why milk is fortified with it so children can get a boost with their sugary cereal! Apparently you have to have enough D to utilize calcium for your bones.

The problem is that the drug companies can't make any money on Vitamin D. Maybe they will come up with some way to charge lots of money for it. Then there will be advertising with suggestions to ask your doctor if it is right for you.

I read somewhere that someone suggested that the reason we get colds in the winter was because we get less sun on us and therefore less Vitamin D.

Catnapper - Joanie

User avatar
Muse-Inc
Posts: 4382
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:44 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Muse-Inc » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:00 pm

wearysoul wrote:...try changing to a gel cap or drops...
Just read thru Davis' posts and he says the same thing; lotta failure (to increase levels) using tablets. Will check mine, think they're a gelatin capsule of powder. Next buy will be a gelcap for sure! Oh the fatter you are, the more D you likely need. He also says that research has shown that several absorption genotypes, so 1 needs a small amt compared to another to achieve the same optimal level. All interesting stuff!
ResMed S9 range 9.8-17, RespCare Hybrid FFM
Never, never, never, never say never.

User avatar
twokatmew
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Mid-Michigan, US

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by twokatmew » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:17 pm

I like NOW's 2000IU D3 gel caps. They're inexpensive, go down easily, and they've been boosting my vit D level steadily. I just had blood work done, and it shows my D3 level at 45. When I first started taking D3, I got tablets. It wasn't till I switched to the gel caps that my level started increasing. IIRC, my initial level was ~18 when I started D3 around two years ago.

Interesting info on cholesterol. Mine has been high since going on daily Prednisone many years ago, but (fortunately) my "good" cholesterol has always been quite high, too.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: CPAP 6/5/2009, Rx: 11-16, OSCAR

User avatar
Kiralynx
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:42 am

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Kiralynx » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:56 pm

Another website which is useful on Vitamin D is

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

the Vitamin D Council.

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software, not listed. Currently using Dreamstation ASV, not listed
-- Kiralynx
Beastie, 2008-10-28. NEW Beastie, PRS1 960, 2014-05-14. NEWER Beastie, Dream Station ASV, 2017-10-17. PadaCheek Hosecover. Homemade Brandy Keg Chin Support. TapPap Mask.
Min PS = 4, Max PS = 8
Epap Range = 6 - 7.5

Air Farce

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Air Farce » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:03 am

Say, folks, there's another beneficial effect of Vitamin D: it greatly reduces the instances of and severity of cramps! I used to get insane leg/ankle/foot cramps at night, occasionally daytime, pain is excruciating. A few years back a physician from India suggested I take Zinc 220 mg and Vitmin D. Nothing to lose so I did it.

Now the cramps are a very rare event, and far less severe. If I forget to take it, guess what? Horrendous cramping that very night. Proof posititve to me.

DS

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by DS » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:34 am

Sun is the optimal source of Vit D. Folks with darker skin require more sun than those with fair skin to get the same amount of benfit. Also, the closer you are to the polar latitudes, the more sun (time spent in) you need than if you are near the equator ... seasonal sun angles, well you figure it out.

Short of sunshine, supplementing D should be in form of D3.

D is fat soluble (same for A,E, and K), therefore taking D, A, E, or K without fat in the gut is non-effective and just goes out your pooper instead of being absorbed into your blood stream ... so always eat fat (preferably saturated) right before taking fat soluble supplements.

Another reason low-fat whole grain diets are so unhealthy ... they lead to vitamin deficiencies essential for hormone production. And hormones are the interface between the genetic expression (health vs disease) of your body at the cellular level and the environement we call life (ie. diet, sleep, exercise, as well as physical, chemical, and mental stresses). You need optimal hormone production to have balanced hormone levels ... only then can you manipulate your environmental to stimulate your genes to optimize for a healthy body state.

(DS - deep into an epigenetic project of the self)

User avatar
Babette
Posts: 4231
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Babette » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:03 am

DS wrote:(DS - deep into an epigenetic project of the self)
(WAVING)

Hi buddy! Glad you're still amongst us if only occasionally!!!! Now I have to go look up "epigenetic".

Huggers,
Babs

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Started XPAP 04/20/07. APAP currently wide open 10-20. Consistent AHI 2.1. No flex. HH 3. Deluxe Chinstrap.
I currently have a stash of Nasal Aire II cannulas in Small or Extra Small. Please PM me if you would like them. I'm interested in bartering for something strange and wonderful that I don't currently own. Or a Large size NAII cannula. :)

User avatar
tattooyu
Posts: 1618
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Valley Village, CA

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by tattooyu » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:28 am

Muse,

I saw your post in another thread about Vitamin D, and now my interest is piqued! I take a Rainbow Light multivitamin that has 800 IU of Vitamin D3 (as cholicalciferol).

Would it be common sense to have my Vitamin D levels checked before increasing my intake, or is it relatively harmless under a certain dose? Blue Bonnet Nutrition (a brand I really like) has a Vitamin D3 softgel (and chewables!) as low as 400 IU. I'm thinking of adding a 400 IU softgel to my intake to make 1200 IU total.

Thoughts, comments?

BTW, my recent lipid panel showed a vast improvement to my cholesterol with diet and exercise (and xPAP?).

7/17/2009
Total: 152
HDL: 34 (needs improvement)
LDL: 91
Triglycerides: 133

Total/HDL ratio of 4.5:1.


Before my diet, exercise and xPAP life change my triglycerides used to be >300, my LDL was >130 and my Total/HDL ratio was around 6:1. I was also 250 lbs., and now I'm 206 lbs. This happened over the course of 4-5 years.

I'm curious to see if Vitamin D will help or be harmful!

EDIT: I just realized that my BP med (Diovan HCT) includes a thiazide diuretic which can decrease calcium output in the urine, thus increasing levels of calcium in the body. Vitamin D increases absorption of calcium. I wonder if that would be an issue as well?
Last edited by tattooyu on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sleep well and live better!

User avatar
Uncle_Bob
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:10 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Uncle_Bob » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:35 am

Where I live my vitamin D source is pretty much up in the sky for 330 days of the year.

And i try and get my daily dose on my bike ride to work

i think i'm good

User avatar
tattooyu
Posts: 1618
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Valley Village, CA

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by tattooyu » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:37 am

You know UB, I live in L.A., but I'm also inside an office for most of the week. I wonder if I just increase my sun on the weekends, if that would be enough?
Sleep well and live better!

User avatar
Uncle_Bob
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:10 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Uncle_Bob » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:32 pm

tattooyu wrote:You know UB, I live in L.A., but I'm also inside an office for most of the week. I wonder if I just increase my sun on the weekends, if that would be enough?
I'm not sure if the beneficial rays would make it through the smog

seriously i have no idea how much time is needed I'm affraid. I too work in my own office all day so i like to outside at every opportunity, the sun and fresh air is great for improving your mood. So yeah get out there

User avatar
SnoozyWoozyCat
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:05 pm

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by SnoozyWoozyCat » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:09 pm

Uncle_Bob wrote:Where I live my vitamin D source is pretty much up in the sky for 330 days of the year.

And i try and get my daily dose on my bike ride to work

i think i'm good
Here in Denver, the sun shines 300 days a year and I'm frequently outside in the sunshine. But for some reason, it's not enough and my D is very low and requires supplementation. Wish it was as easy as a trip outside for me!

User avatar
Muse-Inc
Posts: 4382
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:44 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: OT: Vitamin D

Post by Muse-Inc » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:28 pm

tattooyu wrote:...is it relatively harmless under a certain dose?
Yup, levels over 100 indicate you have enough and should reduce supplements. Highly unlikely (but nit impossible) to have levels with high without huge supplements. The only ones I've read about who have levels like that are those supplementing with cod liver oil that has the D.

I took the BlueBonnet most of this past yr.

Congrats on the lipid improvements!
tattooyu wrote:...I'm curious to see if Vitamin D will help or be harmful!
It's not a vitamin, it's a hormone.
tattooyu wrote:...thiazide diuretic which can decrease calcium output in the urine, thus increasing levels of calcium in the body. Vitamin D increases absorption of calcium.
Hasn't been for me, I also take a thiazide combo diuretic...but then my supplements contain little calcium and I take a whooping amt of magnesium which controls-corrals calcium much like a calcium channel blocker. Calcium is critical for certain body systems but only when it's in the right place. Magnesium, which most of are deficient in, helps restrain the migration of calcium to places it shouldn't where it potentially could cause problems.

@Air Farce, that's a huge amt of zinc; RDA is something like 15 mgs/day. Don't know how often you're taking that amt but too much zinc is not good. Might get your level checked to make sure it's OK.
ResMed S9 range 9.8-17, RespCare Hybrid FFM
Never, never, never, never say never.