zero apnoea, feel sleepy - duh?

[Moby]

Hi everyone,

Hit the magic zero last night

7hr 30 mins sleep (now my norm, and been getting that lately), leak rate 0.04. HI 2.2

Still feeling sleepy two hours after natural awakening and two ADD tabs.
What's going on?

Late night last night, 1am. Maybe the old adage about an hour's sleep before midnight is worth two after is true?

Di

[billbolton]

Hit the magic zero last night

Any AHI below 5.0 is equally magic, there's nothing special about an AHI of zero.

Still feeling sleepy two hours after natural awakening and two ADD tabs. What's going on?

xPAP treatment only addresses OSA, it doesn't address any other sleep disorder you may be experiencing. You should talk to to your sleep physician!

Cheers,

Bill

[Moby]

Thanks Bill.

Not the reply I wanted, but yes it makes sense!

But wouldn't any other sleep problem have showed up at my sleep test? OTOH, I didn't hit REM in my sleep test.

Point taken about "nothing special about zero aps". It does give me this feeling of acheivement I must admit. I guess it means the equipment is working as well as possible.

Thanks for all your thoughtful posts, always good info.

regards

Di - in a *much* cooler Perth after yesterday's lovely rain.

[alnhwrd]

Dear Moby,

It might just take a while. After X # of years of not sleeping well, you probably still need to catch up. Its funny, sometimes on the nights I have the best numbers I still feel lousy, but other nights my numbers are just so-so but I feel pretty good. So don't depend on numbers alone, it is how you feel that really counts. It's interesting to me that now that I am on CPAP I am sleeping soundly enough that some nights my arms or legs are stiff from sleeping in the same position for so long. Pre CPAP i did not have this problem, because I slept so badly. So maybe there is something else going on for you. Or maybe it is just getting in the habit of sleeping well, also a problem for some.

[billbolton]

But wouldn't any other sleep problem have showed up at my sleep test? OTOH, I didn't hit REM in my sleep test.

OSA can effectively mask other sleep disorders, which may start to become apparent after the more gross symptoms from OSA are under satisfactory management.

There may be some clues in your PSG results, which is why you should talk to your sleep physician again.

Sometime its simply just a matter of getting used to a more normal sleep pattern and general sleep hygiene....

SDA Fact Sheet AT09 - Sleep Hygiene

Cheers,

Bill

[kteague]

Gee, Bill, hold on to that bucket of cold water, please. I looked at my numbers for the week and hit a zero AHI on a night I got nearly 8 hours sleep. So, let's see... 0 AHI x 8 hrs = 0 per nite. But at an AHI of 4 x 8 hrs = 32 events per nite. Hmmm, that zero feels pretty special to me.

[zorrro13]

Funny that but I always feel best when my ahi is around 2.0. The few times i hit 0.2 I felt unrested. I it possible that a higher ahi means a deeper sleep?

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): AHI

[Captain_Midnight]

Moby - -

As I understand your post, you still feel fatigued following a night with Zero Apnea events; however, with 2.2 hypopneas per hour.

In my limited experience, the hypopneas might have something to do with your continuing symptoms.

In my case, with my optimized AFLEX APAP range, I usually have no apneas, just hypopneas from a minimum of zero, to a max of about 1.5. Now, I know that anything below an AHI of 5 is supposed to be okay, however I feel noticeably better following a night with 0-0.4 HI as opposed to say anything from 0.8 to 1.4 HI.

I guess the AHI of 5 was arbitrary, and selected with a small sample group.

One other thing. Some view hypopneas as no big deal, but I would challenge that. I suspect that hypopneas result from an adaptation response, which maintains us in a lighter state of sleep (or a heightened state of response to wake-up stimuli) to prevent our strangulation from the full apnea.

And, I further suspect that it could be the hypopneas that have more to do with hypertension than the apneas, especially for apneics who have had the disorder for many decades.

Now, these are just hypopnea hypotheses, so if anyone wants to set me straight on this, go right ahead. I freely admit that I need to do more reading on hypopneas versus apneas, and the physiological mechanisms for each.

Good luck treating that HI.

Regards all - - Tom

[Snoredog]

the zero AHI doesn't really mean much, means only that your "Obstructive" Sleep Apnea is controlled down to better than normal levels.

if you remain tired or not getting enough sleep then you need to see your sleep doctor to rule out other causes of interruption to your sleep, like spontaneous arousals, RLS, PLMD etc. those other events are most likely already on your past PSG report just never properly addressed by your doctor.

go see them and ask for your money back

[krousseau]

It was not until my third sleep study that PLMD showed up as a significant problem-of course I didn't sleep well at all the first two and got better/longer sleep on the third one. two years of PAP experience helped me sleep in the lab setting. Now if they just had a recliner for me to sleep in....

[GrizzlyBear]

Hey, Moby.

Feel good at every opportunity - don't fuss too much over the naysayers (and after all, you deserve to feel good - your posts show you to be a kind and generous person). They may be right, but who wants to put right ahead of good? After all, vegetables are 'right', chocolate is 'good'. I know which one I'd put first.

After the good feeling, though, I suppose one should note the well meant advice. In my own case, while I still feel tired, I don't seem to need to fall asleep at the traffic lights, so I guess there is some improvement!

Regards,

GrizzlyBear