Nasal cushions and chin straps

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Kargurin
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Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by Kargurin » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:06 am

My current mask is a Dreamwear full faced/hybrid mask which in general I like. But in an effort to cut bulk even more I ordered the Dreamwear nasal cushion and a Resmed chin strap. Things seem to fit well and I achieved a good seal And I read that it is a good idea to use a chin strap to keep the mouth closed. I am primarily a nose breather but there times I wake up with a dry mouth (using the full faced mask) which I assume is because I open my mouth while sleeping. I've been playing with humidification levels but it seems like if I open my mouth for any extended period I end up with dry mouth.

Anyway, trying the nasal cushion mask last night I ended up taking it off after a couple hours. The problem is that it felt uncomfortable keeping the jaw shut all the time with the chin strap. Is this something that one grows accustomed to or is it a barrier for some users. Should I continue to try the nasal cushion/chin strap system and hopefully, eventually get used to keeping the jaw shut all night.
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LSAT
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by LSAT » Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:08 pm

If you like the Dreamwear FF mask, why are you putting yourself through this. To me, using the Dreamwear nasal mask with a chinstrap is more bulk than the FF mask. The dry mouth is more than likely from mouth opening. If you are going to continue with the nasal mask, you may have to tape your mouth.
Try Xylimelts for the dry mouth.
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Kargurin
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by Kargurin » Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:30 pm

The chinstrap is really lightweight. It definitely feels less bulk to me. Maybe a bit more bother since there are two things to adjust rather than one. But....I don't remember reading anything about people having issues keeping their jaw shut all night. I suppose it's the same with tape. But I didn't like it. Seems like the nasal pillows and cushions are pretty popular but I think you need to do something about air coming out of the mouth.
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lnoland
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by lnoland » Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:29 pm

Kargurin wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:30 pm
The chinstrap is really lightweight. It definitely feels less bulk to me. Maybe a bit more bother since there are two things to adjust rather than one. But....I don't remember reading anything about people having issues keeping their jaw shut all night. I suppose it's the same with tape. But I didn't like it. Seems like the nasal pillows and cushions are pretty popular but I think you need to do something about air coming out of the mouth.
Perhaps, experiment with other chinstraps. I still have problems with dry mouth, even using a full-face mask so, personally, I use the Phillips Respironics "Original Deluxe Chinstrap" (https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... -chinstrap). I like that it is wide, so it distributes the tension over my jaw rather than all in one spot. It is comfortable (though, depending on how one adjusts it, it partially or completely covers one's ears, which you might consider an issue). My only issue with it is that there is a strap which goes behind the head to keep it in position, and it just uses the hook side of a hook and loop fastener to attach to the fabric of the strap -- there is no loop side. Between the fabric fraying from use and the "hooks" getting bent out from use, eventually it stops holding well and starts disconnecting during the night allowing the strap to shift, thus becoming ineffective and I wake up with a dry mouth. I wouldn't mind this so much except it happens a bit too quickly for my taste.

As for your original question -- I didn't find it particularly uncomfortable having my jaw closed at night but it is a strange feeling. It feels particularly strange if I need to cough or clear my throat but doing that in a mask feels strange, anyway. I had a different chinstrap before this one, it wasn't that comfortable, and I stopped using it. So, again, perhaps before you give up on the idea, you should try some different chinstraps and see if you have a better experience with them.

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Miss Emerita
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by Miss Emerita » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:18 am

Kargurin wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:30 pm
I don't remember reading anything about people having issues keeping their jaw shut all night. I suppose it's the same with tape. But I didn't like it. Seems like the nasal pillows and cushions are pretty popular but I think you need to do something about air coming out of the mouth.
Actually, jaw dropping is a pretty common problem for people trying to prevent leaks, so you have a lot of company. Whatever is most comfortable and effective FOR YOU is what you should do.

That said, I've pasted below some information I've provided to other forum members, in case there's anything there that would be helpful to you.

So, if you want to keep trying with a pillow mask, here are some ideas about reducing or eliminating mouth leaks. Many people find that chin straps are actually counterproductive, because they tend to pull the jaw back, which makes it harder to keep the mouth closed.

1. Tongue position. Try putting the tip of your tongue behind your upper front teeth. Then position the main part of your tongue up against your upper palate. Finally, give a little suck or swallow to create a bit of suction. You should now be able to open your mouth while breathing entirely through your nose. Practice this during the day, and see if you can get it grooved in deeply enough to help while you are asleep at night. For some people, this is really all it takes to avoid mouth leaks.

2. Collar. If your jaw tends to drop down during the night, pulling your mouth open, then a soft cervical collar, or a firmer snore collar, can be a big boon. More here:
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...cal_Collar

3. Although chin straps tend to pull the jaw back, which is not helpful, the Knightsbridge Dual Band strap has a design that pulls the jaw straight up, which makes it a possible alternative to a cervical collar.

4. Tape. Some people (including me) rely on tape to keep the lips from opening. (I can't rely entirely on the tongue thing.) When the lips open, all too often that eventually leads to a noisy and disruptive mouth leak. To see whether tape would be feasible for you, I recommend that you invest in a box of Somnifix strips. They are very gentle on the skin but hold very well. Be sure to curl your lips inward per instructions before placing the strip. If these work for you, then you can experiment with lower-cost options.

Note about tape: Some people avoid it, for two reasons. (1) If you suddenly need to vomit in the night, the tape could lead to your aspirating some vomitus, which would be bad. However, you can sacrifice one strip to see for yourself how well you can pull you mouth open in an emergency using only your jaw muscles. (2) If there is a power failure and your machine goes off while you're sleeping, you won't be able to do the natural thing and open your mouth to breathe. As for that, out of an abundance of caution, I've put a circuit alarm in a plug on the same circuit as my machine. It will wake me up immediately if I lose power to the machine.
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:22 am

Kargurin wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:30 pm
Seems like the nasal pillows and cushions are pretty popular but I think you need to do something about air coming out of the mouth.
Right, the therapeutic pressure can be lost - the user still has breathing events.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:23 am

lnoland wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:29 pm
having my jaw closed
What does this mean?

lnoland
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by lnoland » Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:04 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:23 am
lnoland wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:29 pm
having my jaw closed
What does this mean?
Pretty much the same thing as having a door closed -- having it in the closed position rather than in the open position.

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Kargurin
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by Kargurin » Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:05 pm

I understand what inoland is saying about closed jaw. Don’t know how else to describe it. Chin strap closes the jaw and it feels a bit unnatural to not open it for hours. I went back to the full faced Dreamwear last night and woke up once gasping for air. I don’t know why. My OSCAR stats show an AHI of .74 but when I awoke I felt very tired. I’ll try the pillow again tonight.
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Nasal cushions and chin straps

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:02 pm

lnoland wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:04 pm
Pretty much the same thing as having a door closed -- having it in the closed position rather than in the open position.
Kargurin wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:05 pm
I understand what inoland is saying about closed jaw. Don’t know how else to describe it.
Here is a description of a normal jaw-resting position.
Place the tongue against the roof of your mouth with the tip just behind the top front teeth (as if you were saying the letter ‘N’). The teeth should be slightly apart.
Some newbies come here thinking they have to keep their teeth together to avoid mouth-breathing. That's why I asked.