Problems with my current doctor

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Mouchet
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Problems with my current doctor

Post by Mouchet » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:30 pm

:!: I went and saw my sleep doctor today and he was as surprised as I was .

Two years ago I thought the CPAP was not working another doctor informed me of auto Pap and BiPAP .

I bought my own machine and had a home sleep study .

My sleep doctor just informed me that I need another sleep study because he only deals with CPAP and not anything else. He directly said that you should only be on auto Pap or BiPAP for a month and CPAP is what should be used . He said this is why have so many problems. He said no pap and auto pap machines cannot keep up.

5 years ago Cpap was set at only 9
2 years ago auto pap was set at 4-15

Which is better? I thought auto pap was way to go

I have an appointment with another sleep doctor but I also set up a sleep study in the next two weeks with my current doctor ... has anyone heard this before and should I just wait to see another doctor I’m really having tons of sleep problems right now .

Just very confused

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palerider
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by palerider » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:46 pm

Mouchet wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:30 pm
:!: I went and saw my sleep doctor today and he was as surprised as I was .

Two years ago I thought the CPAP was not working another doctor informed me of auto Pap and BiPAP .

I bought my own machine and had a home sleep study .

My sleep doctor just informed me that I need another sleep study because he only deals with CPAP and not anything else. He directly said that you should only be on auto Pap or BiPAP for a month and CPAP is what should be used . He said this is why have so many problems. He said no pap and auto pap machines cannot keep up.
Run away, run away fast, don't waste your money on this idiot. He's about 20 years behind the times.

Your auto pressure was way too low, start with minimum set to what your cpap pressure was.

And, stop making a new thread for every thought you have, it makes it much harder to help you, keep all your issues in one thread.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:09 pm

By all means, loose the idiot doctor.

Q: What do they call the person who barely passed medical school?
A: Doctor.

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Bigtonguehypopnea
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by Bigtonguehypopnea » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:00 am

Mouchet wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:30 pm
:!:
My sleep doctor just informed me that I need another sleep study because he only deals with CPAP and not anything else. He directly said that you should only be on auto Pap or BiPAP for a month and CPAP is what should be used . He said this is why have so many problems. He said no pap and auto pap machines cannot keep up.

5 years ago Cpap was set at only 9
2 years ago auto pap was set at 4-15

Which is better? I thought auto pap was way to go

I have an appointment with another sleep doctor but I also set up a sleep study in the next two weeks with my current doctor ... has anyone heard this before and should I just wait to see another doctor I’m really having tons of sleep problems right now .

Just very confused
Crazy! Glad you're getting a new doctor. As for your decision about going ahead with the study with the current doctor...gosh. The only reason I can think that you'd get a worse result for already having your study done when you see the new doctor is if that new doctor has an ego issue with not having ordered it. But I'm not sure. I've had three sleep doctors and two sleep studies, but I still don't feel like I REALLY know for sure if the ordering doctor has any influence or micro-decisions about how the sleep study is done and what things are watched for. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has comments on this.

My first instinct is that if you're having tons of problems, I'd go ahead and get the test. It's hard to get them scheduled sometimes. And it should be 99% - 100% the same test. Your new doc will know what to do with the numbers.

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Pugsy
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by Pugsy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:52 am

Does this new (in the dark ages) doctor not understand that your apap machine has cpap mode available if that is what he prefers to use?
He wants to go on a fishing expedition (at your expense) with the new sleep study.

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D.H.
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by D.H. » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:22 am

I agree, loose that doctor; cancel your upcoming test and any appointments that you might have with him.

You might want to find another sleep doctor, perhaps the one that told you about Auto-PAP.

As somebody pointed out, you can turn an AuotPAP, BiPAP, or AutoBiPAP into a plain old CPAP, if that's what's desired.

Please fill in your profile so that we can know what kind of equipment you're using.

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JDS74
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by JDS74 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:09 pm

An issue that I see here in this narrative is one of precisely how to use an auto-adjusting CPAP machine for optimum therapeutic treatment.
Many (some of them doctors) have the idea the setting a wide open range of say 4-14 cmH2O will allow the machine to provide the optimum pressures.
If what your really need is closer to something like 13 cmH2O, then the machine will be chasing (relatively slowly) the optimum pressure all night and you will not get the rest you need.

Auto-adjusting CPAP machines can supply lots of data on pressures used, etc. In particular, they can provide the 90% number.
In our example case of 4-14 cmH2O, the 90% number might be 10 cmH2O (I'm making these number up folks just for an example.)
Then you could take that number and see that the lower limit of 4 cmH2O was way too low so that an increase was warranted,
OTOH, suppose the 90% number was 13.5 cmH2O, that would mean your system should be looking at raising the 14 number just a little.
So, for the next week (remember, always use a week's worth of data because we all vary a lot night-to-night) the range might be changed to, say, 8-14 cmH2O if the 90% number was 11 or 10-15 cmH2O if the 90% number was 13.5 (remember - just made up numbers for illustration - your mileage will vary.)

Changes like these get the machine closer in its initial settings to what you really need and so the changes it make in auto mode get closer to what you need faster.

In some sense the original doctor was right that the auto machines don't get the job done fast enough but wrong in assuming only fixed pressure machines can do the job. Bi-level machine solve a real problem - patients sometimes struggle to be comfortable on exhale and b-level (or pressure relief) machine help that which in turn helps compliance. Auto-adjusting machine solve a different but just as real problem - sometimes patient's pressure needs during the night vary significantly - lower pressure sometimes and much higher at other times. And that's just for patients whose "only" problem is obstructive sleep apnea. For those like me, my machine has a ventilator mode for when I just stop breathing. That's called a central apnea and the airway is open nicely and I could breath but just don't. Without a specialized bi-level machine, nothing would happen and I would just lie there not breathing. My normal occurence of one of these is about 6 minutes (the longest one was 2.5 hours) - enough to get into trouble and wake up in a panic struggling to breathe.

So, get a copy of SleepyHead or the manufacturer's own reporting program and see for yourself what is going on. It's likely that the settings of 4-15 cmH2O are just too wide to provide you with what you need.

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palerider
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by palerider » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:18 pm

JDS74 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:09 pm
In particular, they can provide the 90% number.
Which only people who know nothing pay any attention to.

All the 90/95% number is, is a more realistic max pressure, like in the olympics where the top and bottom judge is thrown out.

People that focus on it don't understand how to evaluate pressure needs.

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SewTired
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by SewTired » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:19 pm

I would cancel the appointment set up by your current doctor. Your new doctor may not want to do a sleep study and just look at your machine results. Why waste the money?

There are definite times when fixed pressure is preferable over auto pressure. But given all the studies, I think your current doctor is either behind the times or really fixed in his thoughts to argue that apap shouldn't be used longer than a month. What is his justification for that? Cuz apap works for many of us better than a fixed pressure. Unless changes in pressure wake you up, or you have a condition where it affects you negatively, APAP should be your first choice, IMHO.

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D.H.
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by D.H. » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:31 am

SewTired wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:19 pm
I would cancel the appointment set up by your current doctor. Your new doctor may not want to do a sleep study and just look at your machine results. Why waste the money?

There are definite times when fixed pressure is preferable over auto pressure. But given all the studies, I think your current doctor is either behind the times or really fixed in his thoughts to argue that apap shouldn't be used longer than a month. What is his justification for that? Cuz apap works for many of us better than a fixed pressure. Unless changes in pressure wake you up, or you have a condition where it affects you negatively, APAP should be your first choice, IMHO.
Also, your new doctor might prefer a different Sleep Lab. I realize that this is a potential conflict of interest.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:43 am

Some doctors invest money in other businesses.
If that business is a sleep lab, count on there being a conflict of interest.
Insurance companies sometimes permit this when they are getting a "piece of the action".

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Mouchet
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by Mouchet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:59 am

Great news

I had only .4 at Apnias listed last night . This is my lowest in 4 1/2 years .

Here is what I did and let me know what you think
Pros
I used a chin strap and had it very tight
I change my pressure settings to go between the ranges of 10 and 14
I tried nasal mask which is always filled in the past .
Cons
My neck is hurting from wearing the chinstrap. I’m looking for a chinstrap that does not go around the neck and I think I may have found one . What is the best chin strap that will not aggravate the neck?

I still woke up about two or three times but this is a huge difference .



I’m going to give it 1 to 2 more nights before posting results, but I am optimistic

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Bigtonguehypopnea
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Re: Problems with my current doctor

Post by Bigtonguehypopnea » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:27 am

Mouchet wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:59 am
Great news

I had only .4 at Apnias listed last night . This is my lowest in 4 1/2 years .
Great! Way to go.