Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

[Pugsy]

There is a very strong cpap bias here...that's what all of us use and we do our best to help others us it.
They will all try their darndest to get you try again...it's just the way people are here.

Now there used to be a forum where this sort of stuff was more commonly talked about and there was even a dentist or two who would answer questions and people having bad luck with cpap could go there and discuss alternatives with people in the same boat.
Those people aren't here ....
Unfortunately that forum got shut down and I don't know what ever happened to the Dental alternative section people.
I had a good friend who was quite knowledgeable about various dental alternative but she died a couple of weeks ago so we lost that informational source.

I know you aren't alone but I don't know where those others like you go to to have these sorts of discussions with an open mind about the alternatives.
Let's be honest here....most of us who keep trying to bring the lost sheep back into the cpap fold don't have the most open minds of the world when it comes to doing anything less than the gold standard treatment for apnea. They will try their darndest to get you to come over to "our side" Because they really, really feel it is best and they will try to talk you into giving it another try or whatever.

We try to help people use their cpaps....we aren't so great with trying to help someone seek out an alternative because it just isn't in our DNA.

[musculus]

Doesn't palatal expansion mess up with the bite? usually you need an orthodontist for that

[ChicagoGranny]

Doesn't palatal expansion mess up with the bite? usually you need an orthodontist for that

Not when done by a practitioner who knows his stuff.

[ChicagoGranny]

I've been using the CPAP for several months now and have not had great results, my AHI is usually between 3-4 and I often feel very sleepy during the day.

I've been using CPAP for 6+ years. On the rare night that my AHI is 3.0 or higher, I feel like crap all day. Usually, my AHI runs 1.0 or less and I feel good.

I say that to say you should use Sleepyhead and the forum members' expertise to drive down your AHI to a lower level. You likely will find you do much better. In my experience, an AHI of 3 - 4 is not optimized and is not healthy. Think about it. If your AHI is 3.0 and you sleep 7 hours, that is 21 awakenings. How would you feel if your phone rang 21 to 28 times every night?

After you get your CPAP therapy optimized, you can still pursue changes to your jaw and palate. How old are you? For young people, I am a big proponent of structural changes to improve breathing. What about your teeth? How many do you have? Are any of them crowded or crooked? Do you have an overbite?

[chunkyfrog]

To the best of my knowledge, palate expansion is more likely to be
applied to pediatric cases, where bone growth can be bent to our will.
Adults, maybe not so much.

[ChicagoGranny]

To the best of my knowledge, palate expansion is more likely to be
applied to pediatric cases, where bone growth can be bent to our will.
Adults, maybe not so much.

Here are three of the most often cited papers on palatal expansion in adults -

http://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/00 ... 2.0.CO%3B2

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 1684903725

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1453038

[chunkyfrog]

It sounds painful.

[Lucyhere]

Here are three of the most often cited papers on palatal expansion in adults -

http://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/00 ... 2.0.CO%3B2

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 1684903725

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1453038

Palatal expansion under the right circumstances (with a highly experienced dentist in the field) is a solution for some people. A neighbor of mine is one of those people. I believe he is in his early forties. How long that is going to work for him -- who knows. I would exhaust every effort to get CPAP to work for me before I'd explore that route.

[Janknitz]

My daughter and I have a genetic disorder that includes "facial dysmorphisms"--specifically receded and undersized lower jar, high, narrow, arched palate. I went through orthodontia in the 1970's that was "state of the art" for the time--removal of teeth, pushing the top teeth back to meet the lower teeth, no palate expansion. Result is severe sleep apnea--would have been bad to begin with, but this, I'm sure, made it worse.

Daughter had palate expansion with an orthodontic treatment called the Damon System. Activated wires were attached to the outer surface of her teeth to pull the bones outward, and the tongue was not impeded from helping by pushing from the inside. Worked beautifully. Phase two included a "Herbst appliance", to bring her lower, expanded jaw forward a few millimeters. She now has a broad, lovely smile and a wide open airway.

The orthodontist has told me that the same would work on me with my old teeth and bones, but we already spent our fortune on the kid's mouth, and I have to say I'm skeptical that it would work at my age. However, I would certainly trust his expertise before investing in an oral appliance with a dubious track record at best. And it may even be cheaper to have orthodontia than what you are being quoted for the appliances.

My dentist has offered to make me an appliance, but even he admits that he hasn't seen them be effective for anyone who has more than very mild apnea. I appreciate his honesty.

[ChicagoGranny]

Daughter had palate expansion with an orthodontic treatment called the Damon System. Activated wires were attached to the outer surface of her teeth to pull the bones outward, and the tongue was not impeded from helping by pushing from the inside. Worked beautifully. Phase two included a "Herbst appliance", to bring her lower, expanded jaw forward a few millimeters. She now has a broad, lovely smile and a wide open airway.

I love this story.

My dentist has offered to make me an appliance, but even he admits that he hasn't seen them be effective for anyone who has more than very mild apnea. I appreciate his honesty.

Gramps and I each had custom TAP (A brand of mandibular advancement devices.) devices made. I wanted mine for occasional afternoon nap on the sofa. Both devices were fail. Neither of us could tolerate them. Plus, mine didn't even seem to be effective for a short nap where I never got to REM.

[ChicagoGranny]

I like this discussion about structural changes to the jaw and palate. However, it's important to remember that nikkwong's CPAP therapy does not seem to be optimized yet.

[Goofproof]

Where do you mount your SD Card with the Palatal expansion, so it can collect data to see how well your Sleep Apnea is being treated? Jim

[ChicagoGranny]

Where do you mount your SD Card with the Palatal expansion, so it can collect data to see how well your Sleep Apnea is being treated? Jim

[Goofproof]

Where do you mount your SD Card with the Palatal expansion, so it can collect data to see how well your Sleep Apnea is being treated? Jim

That's ok for Rednecks, what about those few of us who still have teeth. Jim

[Janknitz]

[/quote]


[/quote]

That's ok for Rednecks, what about those few of us who still have teeth. Jim
[/quote]