why don't we have a separate buy sell sub?

[stratapastor]

or is there a way to sort the forum I don't know about?

[The Latinist]

I, too, am new to the forum and wondered the same thing. But it seems to have been discussed several years ago and the consensus at the time was that people preferred a flat forum with no subfora.

[aytikvjo]

If it's even possible, i'd be for a separate sub-forum for buy/sell.

[The Latinist]

Oh, it's very possible. But, as I said, it seems to be a settled issue around here.

[zoocrewphoto]

It would need to be a completely separate forum or an email list. It really isn't reasonable to expect our forum sponsor to host a forum for their competition. To me, it seesm disrespectful. It would only encourage more people to come here for the express purpose of selling their equipment. Many of them are people who paid DME prices, quit fairly early on, and then hope to recoup their money. We already see people with only one or two posts offering bricks at high prices. It would get taken over and become a marketplace. We've had some annoying people come in and post daily. We don't need those here.

If somebody wants to make the effort, they can make a yahoo groups for the buying and selling of cpap equipment and post the link here occasionally.

We have a few longtime posters who are respectable, known sellers, who don't post their ads very often. We have the trade thread as well. That seems like enough here.

[jencat824]

I feel the same as zoocrew & I think, except for a few forum contributors, very few of those who come here, looking to sell equipment their insurance company paid for & they just want to flip it for a buck, get any serious attention. Forum members begin to ask them questions about the equipment & payment sources, etc. & they just don't post any longer. They probably just sell it on craigslist. Not that there is anything wrong with craigslist, lots of forum members have gotten back-up equipment that way & that's fine, but this forum isn't about buying & selling. That's our host's business & they do a great job as internet providers of equipment & supplies.

This forum is for all users & newbies needing help finding answers to their questions. Sometimes people who just can't afford sleep studies & want to self diagnosis/treat come here & they might find equipment being offered by another member (that means they can get it with having a prescription), so that is one reason no one says much about others buying/selling occasionally. Just FYI for newbies, if someone posts equipment on here, beware until you ask questions & find out if they are reputable sellers. If you are really very interested, but unsure, just PM several long-term members & ask them, they will know if its a 'fly-by-nighter' or a reputable forum friend.

All that said, we really don't need the subsection you are proposing. I personally love the layout of this forum & hope they don't change a thing.

Jen

[The Latinist]

It would need to be a completely separate forum or an email list.

Why on earth would it have to? The posts are already being made here, they would just be shifted to a separate sub forum so they wouldn't be mixed up with posts of people actually wanting help. It's not like this forum has a policy against posts selling equipment now. I don't think sequestering such posts in a separate subsection in any way promotes them more than letting them clog up the main forum does.

Please understand that I have no horse in this game. I just think the argument doesn't take into account what's actually happening in the forum.

[zoocrewphoto]

It would need to be a completely separate forum or an email list.

Why on earth would it have to? The posts are already being made here, they would just be shifted to a separate sub forum so they wouldn't be mixed up with posts of people actually wanting help. It's not like this forum has a policy against posts selling equipment now. I don't think sequestering such posts in a separate subsection in any way promotes them more than letting them clog up the main forum does.

Please understand that I have no horse in this game. I just think the argument doesn't take into account what's actually happening in the forum.

Like I said, this forum is being sponsored (paid for) by a company that sells cpap equipment. Why would they want to support people who undercut their business? We are lucky they don't shut it down.

In addition, if a section is created for it, then it is encourages people to post their sales ads. People looking to sell they cpap equipment they failed to use will join just to sell their equipment, and we will be over run by sellers. I believe we already tolerate way too many sales posts. There really should be a minimum number of on topic posts before somebody can sell something here. This is NOT a sales forum. We've had many situations where an unknown seller sold the same machine to multiple people and nobody got it. There is already a place for people to sell cpap equipment - craigslist. I got my backup machine via craigslist. I would never buy a used machine from somebody unknown by mail. I have bought mask cushions via ebay from people who had good feedback ratings. We just don't need to encourage scammers to come here. Machines are expensive. Even a $250 machine is a good deal, so scammers can get a good amount of money for one scam. We are not a marketplace. We don't need it here.

I used to participate in newsgroups, and people would always join and try to sell whatever was item was being discussed. So, if you were in a group discussing a tv series, movie, or book series, people would come in trying to sell collectibles for that series. It was extremely annoying.

There may also be some legal ramifications if this site officially encourages sales posts.

[kona0197]

I browse the forum almost every day. I don't see people posting sale ads every day, or bumping old ones every day.

[jnk]

Some three years ago, our hosts used to host a related and linked site called cpapauction. But it had to be shut down.

If a sub was set aside here for similar activity, I believe that some other sites would be more likely to classify this site as a commercial one rather than a patient-self-help site. Also, manufacturers and sellers (especially competitors) might be quick to point to this site as encouraging "illegal" activity. Best if such activity is not highlighted unduly so that it is kept off the radar, I think.

That is not based on any insider information whatsoever, though. It is only my opinion based on unfounded assumptions. Like all my posts.

viewtopic/t98690/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70 ... 81#p650381

[Janknitz]

There used to be a companion site run by our hosts called "CPAPauction.com", a sort of eBay for CPAP
Supplies and equipment. It was a good place to buy and sell used or unused items. But a large majority of the sellers were clearly selling manufacturer's samples still sealed from the factories out the back door of DMEs (some of them sold hundreds clearly marked as samples) and brand new machines that probably "fell off the truck". A little black market going on. It seemed like a good deal for people paying out of pocket, but some people somewhere were getting rooked--most likely us the CPAP users whose DMEs refused to Let us try on sample masks because they were too busy selling them out the back door for profit.

CPAPauction.com shut down rather suddenly one day. Our hosts never said anything but it's quite clear they were threatened by the manufacturers and wholesalers. A little informal trading here is OK, but more than that poses a threat to our hosts--not business competition, but a real threat of loss of suppliers for their own business. Let's not bite the hand that feeds us by jeopardizing their very livelihood.

[chunkyfrog]

Due to several very good points already made, it's not going to happen here,
and an independent forum would have to have financial support.
Regulations being what they are, this, too, would likely be shut down,
and could not happen without an "angel"
(don't look at me--I don't have a pot to hop in)

[jnk]

. . . people preferred a flat forum with no subfora.

Because that helps to prevent posts from being overlooked, as so often happens at other sites.

A zero-reply post has an entire page to float down here so that somebody with helpful information is most likely to see it.

It can take days to get replies to posts at other PAP sites. Here, it is rare for a call for help to get completely overlooked. And that is thought by many long-timers to be important and to be related to the flat-forum format.

[Slartybartfast]

CPAP machines and accessories are Class II medical devices which are available, new or used, only by prescription, as mandated by the FDA. They aren't consumer items like blow dryers and fingernail scissors. So you're not going to see anyone selling new or used machines without a prescription for very long before the FDA shuts them down, citing the possibility of fines and jail time.

There was a thread a while ago, to which our sponsor responded, that explains the hows and whys. See, especially paragraph 4:

viewtopic/t47518/Why-CPAPcom-Requires-P ... ml#p429546

[robysue]

Of the PAP forums that I participate in, this is the only one that tolerates For Sale posts for PAP machines in any way, shape, or form. The rationale the other forums provide for banning such posts from their entire site is tied up with legalese language that basically says that allowing others to buy and sell equipment that requires a prescription leaves the site owners vulnerable to all kinds of (unspecified) bad things .. This kind of thing, plus manufacturer restrictions on on-line CPAP DMEs is most likely what lead to the demise of CPAPauction.com.

Combine that with the fact that the manufacturers have cracked down on what on-line CPAP sellers are allowed to do if they want to be able to sell the major brands of PAP equipment, and its really a (nice) wonder that the owners of CPAP.com continue to turn a blind eye to the For Sale posts in the forum.