Denial. Why did you decide to try a CPAP?

[Tiredofhubby]

So every night I listen to my husband whistle in an out as he breathes, before pausing for a minute, and gasping and coughing, then whistling some more. During the day he drifts off whenever he sits or is bored (he once fell asleep WHILE our daughters speech therapist was talking to us, waiting rooms and TV show's are his enemy. So obviously he needed testing, only one problem. He doesn't believe me. "Honey wake up you fell asleep" "NO I DIDNT!" "Seriously. We have witnesses, I have it on film..." "NO I DIDNT"
He flat out refuses to admit he's tired. He's currently snoring/whistling away next to me, and apparently he's quote "never tired" "well either your tired dear or just a really lazy husband and parent." I say to him as he lies on the couch with his eyes closed.
Eventually I demanded he get tested, I said if they found nothing wrong, I would shut up about it. So he had a home sleep test, he complained all night, said he couldn't sleep with the nasal prongs, and pulled them out. Needless to say he had to take the test again. This time he claimed he didn't sleep all night. The test says he did, the test says he has moderate sleep apnea and that he sleep between 1am and 4am, then from 5:30am to 7am. Nope. The test is wrong he says. He DID NOT SLEEP.
I can't handle this anymore. He's always nodding off, too tired to be an active member of our household, and is irritable as hell when woken. We have FOUR children, a newborn, 2yr old, 3yr old and 7yr old. I'm up every few hours at night and he barley helps during the day, we're both unemployed and yet I can function and he can't.
What made you get a CPAP machine, or even trial one? Does it help with your energy levels? Has anyone experienced this level of denial? Are they easier to sleep with than the nasal prongs during the sleep test?

Thanks for any advice, I don't want to be the naggy wife, but my understanding is if left untreated that it gets worse.

[sleeplessinaz]

My husband told me that I stopped breathing while sleeping. I had daytime sleepiness too, so I believed him. He went with me to the doctors to explain what I was doing while sleeping. Dr. Ordered a sleep study in a sleep lab and the rest is history.

At first I did not like the mask, hose and all the get up, but once I felt better by using my machine so I got used to it. I hope you can get help for your husband, his life span could be shortened by not getting help now.

[kaiasgram]

What has worked for breaking through denial with some is this: Get hold of a recording pulse oximeter and make him some sort of deal so he'll wear it at least one night. He can argue all he wants that he didn't sleep, but it can shock some people out of denial to see how often and how deeply their blood oxygen levels are falling throughout the night.

Then show him some info on the short and long term effects of oxygen deprivation on the body -- brain, nervous system... For some the positive benefits of treatment are a motivator but first one has to accept that there's a real problem.

I wasn't in denial, I actually requested my sleep study. But what kept me working to get adjusted to cpap therapy was seeing those oxygen stats on my report and knowing what damage I'd be doing if I didn't commit to the treatment.

Keep us posted, we understand and want to support you. And him if he'll finally come around.

[jencat824]

I was happy when diagnosed, thought it would lead to me feeling better, which it did. That was 14 years ago. Thru the years I told my hubby I knew from his snoring, snorting & throat noises that he had sleep apnea too. He said he could never sleep with 'that thing' like I did & refused to even discuss testing. After a few years I stopped mentioning it.

Fast forward to Nov 2012, he asked me to make an appointment with his nurse practitioner to get a referral for a sleep test. I was stunned. I asked him what changed his mind & he said he was feeling tired all the time & thought it was worth a try.

Test revealed moderate sleep apnea. He got his machine 12/26/12 & has been 100% compliant. This shocked me, he was never the type to do what a Dr said, but he told me he would do anything to feel better.

He was one of the very lucky ones, took to therapy like a duck to water & actually felt better early into therapy. He has had leak issues from the start, but I think we finally got him the right mask recently.

I think watching me helped him to decide this as something he should do. Not sure he would have done it without actually seeing someone close to him travel this road.

I would encourage you to appeal to his health. Let him know you & your children love & need him to be there in the future. Let him know the health consequences of ignoring this (heart disease, diabetes, danger to others by falling asleep while driving to name a few). Maybe the health aspect will get him motivated. Perhaps encourage him to read info on sleep disorders, print some for him, selecting some that will highlight the more serious diseases that can occur by ignoring sleep disorders, those that are caused &/or made worse by oxygen depletion night after night. Tell him the body reacts to oxygen deprivation & ask him if he wants to deal with those health problems.

Most of all, after you make your case, stop, back off & give him time to think about what you have said. Hopefully he will want to try. If not, you will have done all you can. As the old saying goes 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'. Don't know if you believe in prayer, but I'll say one for him. Let us know how it goes.

Jen

[Todzo]

So every night I listen to my husband whistle in an out as he breathes, before pausing for a minute, and gasping and coughing, then whistling some more. During the day he drifts off whenever he sits or is bored (he once fell asleep WHILE our daughters speech therapist was talking to us, waiting rooms and TV show's are his enemy. So obviously he needed testing, only one problem. He doesn't believe me. "Honey wake up you fell asleep" "NO I DIDNT!" "Seriously. We have witnesses, I have it on film..." "NO I DIDNT"
He flat out refuses to admit he's tired. He's currently snoring/whistling away next to me, and apparently he's quote "never tired" "well either your tired dear or just a really lazy husband and parent." I say to him as he lies on the couch with his eyes closed.

So I end up in shelter because of undiagnosed Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA), was helped by a shelter bunk mate to find the problem – got CPAP – then later in transitional housing I get a pulse oximeter. The Pulse Oximeter was not for me it was to help others find their problem. I convinced six guys to wear it over night and got very clear and obvious OSA oxygen desaturations each time (I wore it myself for a few hours without CPAP to compare) showed them and gave them a printout of the report – and – a year later NONE of them had taken it to his doctor and started to resolve the issue.

I think part of it is that OSA disables our ability to “self monitor” and remember what we just did. Fell asleep – “who? – you are not talking about me!!” “Why is everybody looking at me strange”?! “I certainly do not remember any of that!!!”

I think part of it may well be that OSA could be so consequential. There are very real things to be afraid of! He may be thinking: “I may loose job (Frank did!).” “I may loose my drivers license (my trucker friend did).” “CPAP is hard to use and often people find it unusable (both Frank and my trucker friend could not use CPAP after a long and horrible struggle which I heard way to much about!!!).”

Frankly such fears are reasonable. This is not a condition with any sort of a magic cure. CPAP is found unusable by many even after a year or more of trouble and expense. That is real.

Eventually I demanded he get tested, I said if they found nothing wrong, I would shut up about it. So he had a home sleep test, he complained all night, said he couldn't sleep with the nasal prongs, and pulled them out. Needless to say he had to take the test again. This time he claimed he didn't sleep all night. The test says he did, the test says he has moderate sleep apnea and that he sleep between 1am and 4am, then from 5:30am to 7am. Nope. The test is wrong he says. He DID NOT SLEEP.

That sounds like fear speaking.

I can't handle this anymore.

Well now just for a second think about how it is for him. His brain is fried. You cannot handle it, well now, you are not the only one in the room who cannot handle it. He does not sleep well and so he will not be able to handle it.

He's always nodding off, too tired to be an active member of our household, and is irritable as hell when woken.

I think you are likely being very kind. OSA tends to impair the ability to get things done (executive functioning) and at the same time disables those things we need to relate well (patience, the ability to repress our first response, I think very likely our ability to “feel” (be aware of) the emotional effect of our actions and words.

We have FOUR children, a newborn, 2yr old, 3yr old and 7yr old. I'm up every few hours at night and he barley helps during the day, we're both unemployed and yet I can function and he can't.

Time to appeal to family and friends I think.

What made you get a CPAP machine, or even trial one?

In my case I really really wanted to know how I went from a $50k/y employment (part of a quarter century career) to shelter in only a few years. Then why I was doing so badly in retraining. One thing is true, eventually denial caves in to reality. I was looking for why, you bet I was.

When my shelter friend sat me down and told me what I had (others tried a bit less directly) I was ready to listen.

When I finally got my machine (took six or so months) I was glad because I would disturb my bunk mates less.

Does it help with your energy levels?

Yes and with clarity of thinking and abilities to relate to people as well. I may never see “normal” again but I am improved (note: my apnea tested severe with extreme oxygen desaturations).

Has anyone experienced this level of denial?

Oh yes I have!!! Some listen but most struggle for years against the idea.

Are they easier to sleep with than the nasal prongs during the sleep test?

Many people find CPAP unusable.

Thanks for any advice, I don't want to be the naggy wife, but my understanding is if left untreated that it gets worse.

That is likely often but not always true. Regardless of CPAP or other therapy or even getting a diagnosis I think all with OSA should be assigned a dietitian and personal trainer. Get the whole body healthier and the OSA problem is likely to be eased as well.

Perhaps what you can do is get much healthier yourself? We could all use another good example. Why not?

In the mean time try to remember the good times and to be kind. Everything I have learned in the past ten or so years of my OSA/CPAP awareness tells me that kindness and compassion are the most likely to help. It will likely make him have less inflammation (from less stress). It will likely help his breathing stability which is part of OSA.

But it is not easy to do from where you are.

I wish I had better news. But I know you need me to be real.

[djhall]

Well, you are definitely right about the denial part. Like most I would fall asleep when watching TV or riding as a passenger in a car for very long, though I often didn't realize I had done it, and people would tell me I stop breathing while sleeping until I choked and it scared them... but I didn't _FEEL_ anything unusual and I honestly didn't think I was tired. In retrospect, I didn't think I was tired because I didn't have any awake feeling to compare it to... I felt more awake than I did in the morning so I didn't think what I felt was tired.

I didn't feel different, I didn't want to find a problem since I didn't have insurance and this is prescription only equipment, and I had the impression that sleep apnea is a problem of obese people so sleep apnea meant "you need to lose some weight" in my mind. It was a combination of my best friend constantly telling me I scared them whenever I fell asleep, going on a week long road trip and being incapable of staying awake as a passenger for even one day, and having my new girlfriend wear earplugs to bed when spending the night that finally got me to start looking for an answer. That research led me here, which led me to auto machines and craigslist, where I came across a BiPAP Auto with full face masks for $100. I figured that was my chance to get a cheap answer AND treatment in case everyone was right. I spent a week convinced something had to be wrong because I was getting horrible feedback from the machine even though I kept raising the settings every night!

I thank god I tried it... I had no concept of what I was suffering, but now that I know what life is like with the hose I am scared of the thought of being without it.

[Goofproof]

I did it to live, I had a quad bypass, it took them 20 minutes to tube me. I was set up for XPAP on a fast track, never looked back. Didn't have time to sightsee on De-Nile. Jim

[zoocrewphoto]

I knew I had sleep apnea for at least 10 years, but I assumed it just meant I wake up a lot. I still felt okay, no biggie.

In 2011, my doctor really got on my case about my high blood pressure which was continuing to get higher. She said I was at a higher risk of stroke (serious denial at that time) Then that October, I had a bad case of vertigo., Two trips to two different emergency rooms (I was traveling when it first started). I was 39 and look much younger than I am. So, I was shocked that both doctors checked me for a stroke. It wasn't a stroke, but that sure did scare me. Then in March of 2012, I saw a story on the news about sleep apnea. They explained that sleep apnea causes oxygen deprivation which often causes high blood pressure and leads to strokes and heart attacks. I couldn't stay in denial anymore.

I already had a doctor appointment scheduled, so I confessed about my sleep apnea, and she referred me to a sleep study. I did a split night study in mid April (ahi of 79), and I actually felt pretty good the next day. The next night at home, I slept like crap and felt horrible the next day. I then realized I didn't sleep any worse than normal, and I didn't feel any worse than normal. I just felt worse than the day after the sleep study. Sleep apnea creeps up on us over the years, so we don't realize how bad it has gotten until we have a clear difference between a bad night and a good night.

I got my auto machine on April 30, 2012. I have never been so excited for a doctor appointment in my life. And that machine I dreaded is a good friend now. I really wish I had done this years ago. I still struggle sometimes with usage, but I feel much better. Symptoms that I didn't even know were symptoms have improved. And I finally got over my fear of driving (I used to always sleep during long car rides). I got my very first driver's license last August, 3 days before my 41st birthday, and now drive by myself to cat shows 2-5 hours drive away. I used to have ask my mom or sister to drive me to these shows. Now I can go by myself, and since I am not dragging along a family member, I can split a hotel room with a friend and save money instead of paying the for the whole room and my driver's expenses.

Somebody on this forum has posted links to a video that explains sleep apnea and the damage it causes. That would be a good video for your husband to watch.

[robysue]

One note of caution about the idea of getting an oxymeter: Not all people with OSA desaturate when they have events (I dont). And if hubby is one of them, then you can bet your bottom dollar that he'll use the oxymeter results as more reason to deny his problem. It's difficult to get someone in denial to get over the denial.

Hubby gently nagged me for about 3 years before I got my sleep test. I was more or less symptomless in terms of sleepiness, but hubby witnessed enough apnea events to make him get worried at night. He didn't make in an issue all the time, but he would ask me to ask the doc about a sleep test everytime I went in for anything. And he'd tell me in the morning that he was really worried about me after the "bad" nights where he witnessed apnea events that alarmed him.

I wound up being diagnosed with moderate OSA. I hated the mask for a very, very long time. And quite honestly, I still have an intense dislike of the mask. I had a very difficult adjustment period with a lot of discomfort when sleeping with the mask on my nose. In fact it triggered a really serious bout of insomnia that took months of hard work to (partially) resolve. It took almost six months before I could tell any positive difference in how I felt during the daytime, and it took almost a year before I could say my sleep felt at least as good with PAP as it did without PAP. But I won't sleep without the damn thing now even though I still have a number of non-OSA sleep problems, some of which developed or worsened because the excessively difficult adjustment period I had when starting PAP. Using the PAP allows me to sleep more soundly in the sense that I don't thrash around all night. And I no longer wake up with pain in my hands and feet. Hubby says I'm sharper mentally now, but I feel as though the brain fog is still worse than it was prior to my starting PAP.

This past year has been my time to (gently) nag hubby: He's been falling asleep in front of TV shows that he wants to watch for years and then jerking awake somewhat disoriented for some time; he also has been complaining of "brain fog", although that's not how he describes it. And he's grown to be quite cranky in couple of years. He snores some (his snoring is louder than mine was), but I can't honestly say that I witness apneas on a regular basis. I finally got him to agree to testing last summer. He's only got very mild apnea. He did agree to a titration study about a month after the initial study. Notably he slept very well on his titration study and on that day he did NOT fall asleep in front of the TV even though he woke up much earlier than normal because of the ungodly hour that sleep tests end. But he has been hemming and hawing since then about whether or not he really needs a PAP. He's finally agreed to try a PAP simply because he's tired of falling asleep in front of TV shows that he wants to watch every night.

I don't have much advice for you. I will say that at a certain point, nagging can become counterproductive. And some people who are in serious denial about their apnea will dig their heals in further if they're nagged about it all the time. You may find it more effective to try to bring up the OSA in response to his complaints about being tired or waking up in the middle of a tv show wondering what happened rather than nagging him about it all the time.

[kaiasgram]

Tiredofhubby, do you have a copy of his sleep study report? If so, did he have oxygen desaturations during his test? That would help you to know whether to try the oximeter at home. If he did have desats during his test then he'll likely have them at home too.

[RogerSC]

For me, my wife also told me that I was stopping breathing for some period of time, which upset her, and kept her awake waiting for me to start breathing again. Also, my blood pressure was creeping up for no apparent reason, and I was snoring some. I wasn't one of those that gets tired and goes to sleep at random times, but there were plenty of other symptoms that I was aware of. So there was no room for denial, I was more in a space to find solutions. I'm a problem solver type, so when my doctor suggested that I get a sleep study, I went for it to check it out, although I was already pretty sure that I had sleep apnea going on from what I was experiencing. I only slept 3 hours during my sleep study, but it was enough to get the data they needed. Not enough for a titration, but that's okay since those things are frequently different at home than they are in the lab anyways.

If someone is so bent on not cooperating that they are denying what the sleep study showed, that's a hard one. Sure, you can show them blood oxygen desaturation, you can show them whatever you want, and they'll find a way to shrug it off. It might be more effective to find instances to show them where people have died from sleep apnea, whether from falling asleep driving, or just during the night from stopping breathing.

And yes, the damage is cumulative, every time he gasps when he starts breathing again, that's a shot of adrenaline, his body saving itself, and it causes some damage to his cardiovascular system. If that happens over a long enough time, his opportunity to treat it will go by, and his life will be shortened by some amount. One of the reasons that my wife was so insistent that I look into this was that her sister's husband's brother died at 39 in his sleep as the result of untreated sleep apnea. I think that that must have been a more severe case, but none the less, sleep apnea causes damage to your body. As well as the collateral damage of his closing his eyes behind the wheel of a car instead of on the couch, and killing you, other family members and/or friends, or just innocent bystanders that happened to be in the wrong place.

I wouldn't worry about the naggy wife thing, you're doing this out of love and caring for him, helping him to make his life longer and not hurt himself or others (like you, for example). Maybe if he gets tired enough of hearing it, he'll do something about it. Maybe you need to get friends and family together to stage an intervention, how's that for a cliche for you? It isn't that he's only hurting himself, he's hurting everyone that loves him, and potentially others if he goes to sleep at the wrong time.

[Denial Dave]

close to 20 years ago, my wife complained that I stopped breathing and snoring while sleeping. So in order to stop the nagging, I had a sleep study done. My AHI was 7 during the study.... Left the doctor smiling with no issues. However my wife was not happy.

Fast forward to 2012 & wife complained my issues were worse & I was taking a lot of naps. My parents napped all my life, so I considered taking naps normal.

As an anniversary present to her & to try and stop the nagging, I agreed to have another sleep study done.... This time, my AHI was 33 with severe drops in oxygen along with periodic limb movement.

I'm not trying a CPAP, I'm using it

Hi, my name is DAVE, I've been in DENIAL for years.... thus DENIAL DAVE

[deerslayer]

Welcome to the nut house Tiredofhubby
Hubby Sounds like the kinda guy that fits "DON'T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS, MY MINDS MADE UP"
Yes , i was in denial also. However, my now soulmate of 36 years told me what you relayed to Hubby. Grudgingly i went to the VA for a sleep study. of course as with the norm it should be called a no sleep study with all the wires.
long story short, a week after i started cpap i found this forum with all these folks from all over the world that were in the same boat . Yes there are those that won't try or wash out. most likely they are the same people that convince themselves that smoking will not harm them. Sleep Apnea as i have been told is a death of a thousand cuts .
I can honestly say that if not for starting therapy when i did, i would have had a stroke or heart attack by now. So if he wants to be around to Love you & the kids he will get on the cpap train & stick with it.
Best of Luck, he will wholeheartedly need your loving support.
tim

[Bama Rambler]

There have been so many replies that I almost feel like there's no use posting mine, but I'm going to anyway.

I was not the classical sleep apnea sufferer. I didn't fall asleep during the day and I didn't feel overly tired during the day, but my lovely wife told me that I snored and stopped breathing during the night and she wanted me to get tested. I agreed just to see what it said. It said I had 33 events per hour and my O2 sat dropped to 74%. That was enough to convince me to at least try it.

I was a bit reluctant because I didn't think I'd ever be able to wear the mask, but I was determined to try. Boy was I wrong! I have had very little issues getting used to the alien on my face and now actually look forward to it because it makes breathing and sleeping so much better.

I am a mouth breather so nasal apparatus won't work for me. There are hundreds of different masks out there so it's just a matter of finding the right one for him. I currently use the Mirage Quattro full face mask, but am still searching for the perfect one.

Now for how it makes me feel. Do I feel like a completely new man? No, but it's the little things.
1. I used to eat Tums like they were candy. Since starting PAP I haven't had a single episode of "heart burn" or reflux and I haven't taken a single antacid.
2. I used to have to get up and go to the bathroom several times at night and since starting PAP I don't get up and go at all. That right there is worth putting with the machine!
3. While I didn't think I was tired during the day, it's amazing how much better I feel now than I did before PAP.

Some people think that the hose and mask will get in the way of sleeping, but it's amazing how easy it is to get used to it. I can easily turn over in bed with the mask and hose and never think about it.

I've said all that, but that's not going to convince your hubby to change his mind.
I will say one last thing. If he doesn't get it treated now he WILL regret it one day, and it'll most likely be when it's too late to repair the damage.

[chunkyfrog]

I took video of him with my phone. When I showed it to him, I told him how I couldn't fall asleep because
I was aware that some day he would not start breathing again, and I would wake up next to a
CORPSE!