slept with nasal strips-- no cpap-- interesting...

[Guest]

This is billyc17... i forgot to login before writing this so it may come up as "guest." well, i hate to sound redundant, but again let me thank all those involved with replies/suggestions/insight to my "cpap compliant, good data...." post as you all have provided me with roads to explore (den, pugsy, 49er-- and others--- thanks) anyway- i spent most of yesterday becoming a google MD in both sleep apnea and uars. with uars being a cousin to osa, i thought maybe i was related to uars instead of osa as i certainly fit that criteria better. from the get go i felt my "home" sleep study was a comedy as i laid in bed for 4 hours without sleeping and was given the d/x of osa with 14 ahi and an assortment of other stats. i even asked how accurate was this data without sleeping?, and was told "it just is." so yesterday i evaluated everything rom a-z. given the evidence of my own home tests (audio of horrible snoring, 3 wake ups in the hour with the same snoring pattern, and NO breathing stoppages), the only evidence even suggesting osa was narrow airway, narrow nasal passage, small jaw and a rather unreliable home study. finally falling asleep with cpap only to keep waking up was so frustrating--- i know there certainly are adjustment/time periods, but i was feeling the same upon wakening as if i wasn't using cpap (headache, dry mouth, rapid pulse, like it was a startled wake up versus a gentle arousal) i think cpap only prolonged my awakening, but i was still stuggling to breathe threw my nose. so i found a test on line in which i pinched 1 nostril shut, closed my mouth and tried to inhale/exhale threw the open nostril. i managed about 3 constricted shallow breathes before i had to open my mouth for air. same thing happened with the other nostril. i then repeated the test while taking my pinky and hooking the open nostril and pulling nostril wider to open the passage more. what do you know???? i was able to take a long, deep, full inhale threw the now widened nostril, and full exhale. was able to do this over and over with both nostrils. picked up nasal strips last night, once applied and they "expanded," i experienced unrestricted, deep breathing threw the nose. slept on my back, no cpap. went to bed 11:15, 1st awakening was 1:30am. i took inventory- no headache, which i experience upon each awakening, nice moist mouth (that drool from a good sleep which i forgot existed) versus the standard dry mouth i was accustomed to, was calm and at ease, nasal passages still clear and open with strip still in place, went to bathroom (which at this point is more out of habit) and went back to sleep. it was like a "gentle" awakening if that makes sense. slept another 2 and 1/2 hours and woke up gently again and just went back to sleep. got up 6:30 and have not felt this rested/refreshed/nourished in close to 2 years. if not for a meeting this morning i was going for a long overdue morning run. naturally i have now found many cases of nasal narrowness/thickening of, or enlarged turbinates making sleep very difficult while mimicking much of the symtomology of sleep apnea. i would not have found any of this out without this forum and its users. den, you wanted to help me get a decent nights sleep..... you did. hope you don't mind that it was not with the use of a cpap. thanks

[billyc17]

posted by billyc17---- i forgot to login.

[rkuntz]

Good for you. Nasal strips kept me going for a couple of years before CPAP and I still use them because of a deviated septum. My biggest problem was weight gain, maybe if I lose enough I can get off of CPAP no doubt CPAP's a life saver but there is a list of negatives that go with it.

[penuel]

posted by billyc17---- i forgot to login.

Well, now you could try a nasal pillow mask with a CPAP and get even more air thru your expanded nostrils.

[Wulfman...]

This is billyc17... i forgot to login before writing this so it may come up as "guest." well, i hate to sound redundant, but again let me thank all those involved with replies/suggestions/insight to my "cpap compliant, good data...." post as you all have provided me with roads to explore (den, pugsy, 49er-- and others--- thanks) anyway- i spent most of yesterday becoming a google MD in both sleep apnea and uars. with uars being a cousin to osa, i thought maybe i was related to uars instead of osa as i certainly fit that criteria better. from the get go i felt my "home" sleep study was a comedy as i laid in bed for 4 hours without sleeping and was given the d/x of osa with 14 ahi and an assortment of other stats. i even asked how accurate was this data without sleeping?, and was told "it just is." so yesterday i evaluated everything rom a-z. given the evidence of my own home tests (audio of horrible snoring, 3 wake ups in the hour with the same snoring pattern, and NO breathing stoppages), the only evidence even suggesting osa was narrow airway, narrow nasal passage, small jaw and a rather unreliable home study. finally falling asleep with cpap only to keep waking up was so frustrating--- i know there certainly are adjustment/time periods, but i was feeling the same upon wakening as if i wasn't using cpap (headache, dry mouth, rapid pulse, like it was a startled wake up versus a gentle arousal) i think cpap only prolonged my awakening, but i was still stuggling to breathe threw my nose. so i found a test on line in which i pinched 1 nostril shut, closed my mouth and tried to inhale/exhale threw the open nostril. i managed about 3 constricted shallow breathes before i had to open my mouth for air. same thing happened with the other nostril. i then repeated the test while taking my pinky and hooking the open nostril and pulling nostril wider to open the passage more. what do you know???? i was able to take a long, deep, full inhale threw the now widened nostril, and full exhale. was able to do this over and over with both nostrils. picked up nasal strips last night, once applied and they "expanded," i experienced unrestricted, deep breathing threw the nose. slept on my back, no cpap. went to bed 11:15, 1st awakening was 1:30am. i took inventory- no headache, which i experience upon each awakening, nice moist mouth (that drool from a good sleep which i forgot existed) versus the standard dry mouth i was accustomed to, was calm and at ease, nasal passages still clear and open with strip still in place, went to bathroom (which at this point is more out of habit) and went back to sleep. it was like a "gentle" awakening if that makes sense. slept another 2 and 1/2 hours and woke up gently again and just went back to sleep. got up 6:30 and have not felt this rested/refreshed/nourished in close to 2 years. if not for a meeting this morning i was going for a long overdue morning run. naturally i have now found many cases of nasal narrowness/thickening of, or enlarged turbinates making sleep very difficult while mimicking much of the symtomology of sleep apnea. i would not have found any of this out without this forum and its users. den, you wanted to help me get a decent nights sleep..... you did. hope you don't mind that it was not with the use of a cpap. thanks

No, I don't mind........but what you should do now is get hold of a recording pulse-oximeter to check your blood oxygen during your sleep.

What you described is the reason I've always used cool, "passover" humidification with my CPAP. The cool air helps to keep my nasal passages open to be able to breathe. About a year after I started therapy, with the more I learned about the physiology of this, I came to suspect that I may also have enlarged turbinates and deviated septum. I was actually angry with my previous GP and sleep doctor for not asking me "CAN YOU BREATHE?". But, the cool humidification works for me and it didn't take me long to accept and feel comfortable with my therapy.

Best wishes and good luck to you. Please keep us informed as to how things are going.


Den

.

[49er]

This is billyc17... i forgot to login before writing this so it may come up as "guest." well, i hate to sound redundant, but again let me thank all those involved with replies/suggestions/insight to my "cpap compliant, good data...." post as you all have provided me with roads to explore (den, pugsy, 49er-- and others--- thanks) anyway- i spent most of yesterday becoming a google MD in both sleep apnea and uars. with uars being a cousin to osa, i thought maybe i was related to uars instead of osa as i certainly fit that criteria better. from the get go i felt my "home" sleep study was a comedy as i laid in bed for 4 hours without sleeping and was given the d/x of osa with 14 ahi and an assortment of other stats. i even asked how accurate was this data without sleeping?, and was told "it just is." so yesterday i evaluated everything rom a-z. given the evidence of my own home tests (audio of horrible snoring, 3 wake ups in the hour with the same snoring pattern, and NO breathing stoppages), the only evidence even suggesting osa was narrow airway, narrow nasal passage, small jaw and a rather unreliable home study. finally falling asleep with cpap only to keep waking up was so frustrating--- i know there certainly are adjustment/time periods, but i was feeling the same upon wakening as if i wasn't using cpap (headache, dry mouth, rapid pulse, like it was a startled wake up versus a gentle arousal) i think cpap only prolonged my awakening, but i was still stuggling to breathe threw my nose. so i found a test on line in which i pinched 1 nostril shut, closed my mouth and tried to inhale/exhale threw the open nostril. i managed about 3 constricted shallow breathes before i had to open my mouth for air. same thing happened with the other nostril. i then repeated the test while taking my pinky and hooking the open nostril and pulling nostril wider to open the passage more. what do you know???? i was able to take a long, deep, full inhale threw the now widened nostril, and full exhale. was able to do this over and over with both nostrils. picked up nasal strips last night, once applied and they "expanded," i experienced unrestricted, deep breathing threw the nose. slept on my back, no cpap. went to bed 11:15, 1st awakening was 1:30am. i took inventory- no headache, which i experience upon each awakening, nice moist mouth (that drool from a good sleep which i forgot existed) versus the standard dry mouth i was accustomed to, was calm and at ease, nasal passages still clear and open with strip still in place, went to bathroom (which at this point is more out of habit) and went back to sleep. it was like a "gentle" awakening if that makes sense. slept another 2 and 1/2 hours and woke up gently again and just went back to sleep. got up 6:30 and have not felt this rested/refreshed/nourished in close to 2 years. if not for a meeting this morning i was going for a long overdue morning run. naturally i have now found many cases of nasal narrowness/thickening of, or enlarged turbinates making sleep very difficult while mimicking much of the symtomology of sleep apnea. i would not have found any of this out without this forum and its users. den, you wanted to help me get a decent nights sleep..... you did. hope you don't mind that it was not with the use of a cpap. thanks

No, I don't mind........but what you should do now is get hold of a recording pulse-oximeter to check your blood oxygen during your sleep.

What you described is the reason I've always used cool, "passover" humidification with my CPAP. The cool air helps to keep my nasal passages open to be able to breathe. About a year after I started therapy, with the more I learned about the physiology of this, I came to suspect that I may also have enlarged turbinates and deviated septum. I was actually angry with my previous GP and sleep doctor for not asking me "CAN YOU BREATHE?". But, the cool humidification works for me and it didn't take me long to accept and feel comfortable with my therapy.

Best wishes and good luck to you. Please keep us informed as to how things are going.


Den

.

Den,

Incredulously, two of the sleep doctors I saw said that nasal issues have no role in pap therapy tolerance. And none of them asked me if I could breath either. I find it interesting that the sleep medicine dentist on the other sleep apnea board understands that nasal potency is important but that many sleep doctors don't seem to realize this. Then again, that isn't surprising.

Unfortunately, none of the humidity settings, including cool humidification have helped so that is why I am having the surgery. I am glad you were able to avoid it and found what worked for you.

Billyc, I hope your experiment continues to work and I agree with Den about using a pulse oximeter to check your O2 levels. Unfortunately, breath rite strips seemed to make things worse for me but I might take another shot at them just to see what happens.

49er

[chunkyfrog]

I only use breathe-right strips when I have bad nasal congestion.
---WITH my nasal mask!
It beats using a full face mask.

[billyc17]

No, I don't mind........but what you should do now is get hold of a recording pulse-oximeter to check your blood oxygen during your sleep.

What you described is the reason I've always used cool, "passover" humidification with my CPAP. The cool air helps to keep my nasal passages open to be able to breathe. About a year after I started therapy, with the more I learned about the physiology of this, I came to suspect that I may also have enlarged turbinates and deviated septum. I was actually angry with my previous GP and sleep doctor for not asking me "CAN YOU BREATHE?". But, the cool humidification works for me and it didn't take me long to accept and feel comfortable with my therapy.

Best wishes and good luck to you. Please keep us informed as to how things are going.


Den

.[/quote]

Den,

Incredulously, two of the sleep doctors I saw said that nasal issues have no role in pap therapy tolerance. And none of them asked me if I could breath either. I find it interesting that the sleep medicine dentist on the other sleep apnea board understands that nasal potency is important but that many sleep doctors don't seem to realize this. Then again, that isn't surprising.

Unfortunately, none of the humidity settings, including cool humidification have helped so that is why I am having the surgery. I am glad you were able to avoid it and found what worked for you.

Billyc, I hope your experiment continues to work and I agree with Den about using a pulse oximeter to check your O2 levels. Unfortunately, breath rite strips seemed to make things worse for me but I might take another shot at them just to see what happens.

49er[/quote]

thanks Den, will look into recording pulse oximeter. i am now also utterly baffled that no one ever asked about my breathing either. this is actually getting more interesting by the day. coincidence or related?? November 2011 i started a new job (recruiting/all office based work) january comes and a few people start getting sinus infections, bad head colds, etc,, someone there tells me, "just a matter of time, you'll get yours, happens every year." now, i had not been sick in years, thank god, never any sinus issues/infections,, never. late january i get hit with it. my nostrils, nasal passages, throat, brain, eyes, were on fire. every inhale through my nose was so painful as it burnt so much. i had never experienced a dryness and seemingly swollen nasal passage like this. missed a few days of work and went on some meds. i looked into this so-called "yearly sinus infection" that somehow everyone in the office would get. turns out, the building managers had refused to clean duct systems for years. i inspected the vents overhead throughout the office and bathroom that i use, because who really ever checks those when you start a job. the blackest mold, thickest dust basically covering all of the vents. i pointed that out to co-workers and their response was "yeah, we know. good luck getting anything done about it." in the bathroom i stood on the sink and got closer to the vent as the back mold/dust was blowing around as the heat was on. i swear to you as i got closer my nose almost burst into flames. my repeated awakenings at night and horrible sleep started 2 months after that in March 2012. i have read that turbinates can enlarge, thicken and swell from over exposure to allergants. who knows, maybe i'm just a conspiracy theorist, but this just seems so uncanny. i am, and have been congested day and night (so much worse at night) since then and never thought about it. anyway, last 2 nights with nasal strips were good, better, rested sleep. i have found that 1 nostril has gotten very stuffy around 4:30am, even with strip, so i think a visit to the ENT to explore options is in order as this will not get better on its own and i will not use nose spray every night. thanks