Please help me figure this out?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Africassie
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Please help me figure this out?

Post by Africassie » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Hallo and a belated merry Christmas from beautiful Vancouver Island!

First off, thanks for the help in getting my Sleepyhead program to talk to me. That was awesome! Now that I can manage the downloads and see the graphs, I need just a ton more help, though…

The first issue I have has to do with my profile on this forum. Even though I have filled out my profile correctly, my machine does not appear in the equipment appendage at the bottom of my posts. How do I fix that? I have a PR System One REMstar Pro CPAP Machine with C-Flex Plus and it appears on the UserCP profile correctly - just not at the bottom of my posts.

After spending pretty much my whole Christmas break so far on the forums here, I have no greater clarity on how to interpret the graphs and data from my machine either and hoped that you all would find the patience to help yet another noob figure these things out!

I got my machine in June/July of this year, and my sleep center has not been really great at explaining what was wrong with me. I have been referred to an overnight sleep study, but due to a really great medical system in Canada, I have still - after more than half a year - not been for the tests. I received the machine based only on the results of the little home oximetry/sleep test.

So far I have been reading up online on how to adjust the machine and have been fidgeting with the settings, but I still feel like crap in the mornings, though. Some days I feel worse in the mornings when I wake up, than when I felt when I went to bed the night before. I first used the Mirage FX nasal mask and changed to the Swift FX nasal pillows about 3 weeks ago now. The nasal pillows really irritated my nostrils and I ended up having a painful raw, chapped nose. This made me change back to the Mirage FX again. I have a moustache and goatee, if this makes any difference.

Not knowing what would be more helpful, I am posting all of my graphs and other info for last night here. I would really appreciate if you could have a look and help me make sense of this.

Thanks in advance!
Casper

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Julie
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by Julie » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:29 pm

Hi, if your facial hair is keeping your mask from sealing well, you might need to look at other masks, including full face ones that would also allow you to mouth breathe when sleeping but not lose therapy air that way (your leak rate is not terribly high, but not low either). Your numbers otherwise look pretty good. You maybe want to schedule a time with your DME to try various ones, pref. lying down as faces change a lot that way.

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CPAP101
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by CPAP101 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:58 pm

http://www.sleepmapper.com. This website is exclusive to the unit you have and in my opinion offers a far better way to Down Load and understand the readings from your unit. without having a true Sleep Study there is not a way you can really know what's going on with your sleep to determine the true problem. Based on your download it would appear that your upper air way is not being obstructed very much. your readings, AHI are under 5 and for a CPAP user that is good. Most people through a Sleep Study get diagnosed with mild, moderate or sever sleep apnea. an AHI of 5-15 is considered mild, 15-27 is moderate and 27-higher is considered sever OSA. So based on your readings it would appear your under the mild case, this should make you feel more rested. So without having an actual Sleep Study yet it is unclear if there is another issue you may be having. Most people take about 72hrs to a month to acclimated to their therapy. The mask you have appears to need a little adjustment based on the leaks from the statistic part of your report. The system one PRI unit has a leak threshold or 40% and your at 42% 95% of the time, maybe trying an Activa LT nasal mask by Res med will help. I usually will fit it when facial hair becomes an issue.

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SleepyToo2
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by SleepyToo2 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:26 pm

Stop fiddling! One or two nights of data tell you nothing. Especially when your AHI is less than 1.0. It takes time to get used to the new conditions - usually at least 2-3 weeks, preferably 4 weeks. Let your treatment settle, then come back for guidance on what you see - it will be much more helpful then.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:36 pm

Welcome.
Nice hair!

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LSAT
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by LSAT » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:55 pm

The bottom of the nasal mask you are using rests between your nose and upper lip...right on your mustache. If this is where your leaks are coming from , a switch to a total face mask which covers your entire face may help. The FF mask Julie mentioned would fit on top of your goatee and may cause leaks there.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... dgear.html

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Africassie
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by Africassie » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:43 pm

Hi All!

Thanks for the great replies!

Julie: I switched back to the nasal pillows again last night. This time with a bigger size. They felt better and it looks as if my leak rate went down a bit ( I attached the pie graph below)

CPAP-101: I had a look at the Sleepmapper web site and tried to download the program to my Mac. I had no joy, as it seems there is only an app for iPad/iPhone. I tried to find another location with a .dmg file for it, but had no luck. The only information I could really get were reviews from current users saying the program did not work properly and that they had a hard time registering to the web site. There were no better information on the web site itself, and the only file I could find for it was Windows based. Am I missing something? Am I wasting my time with Sleepyhead or should I get another machine that has its own native software? I hope to be scheduled for a proper sleep test in the new year. Not knowing is driving me nuts.

SleepyToo2: Since I have had no instruction on how to operate my machine, I am flying blind. How am I supposed to find out which settings are best? Is there a guide somewhere that could tell me what settings to use or suggested combinations of settings? I am sometimes not even sure what impact my changes really have.

ChunkyFrog: Thanks. I was much younger in that picture. I am afraid all my hair now reside on my upper lip and chin

LSAT: Maybe next time for the full face mask. The pillows are still brand new and I would like to see if I can make those work first.

One more question: As I understand it, the machine I have, the C-Flex Plus machine, has variable air pressure. When one exhales, the machine's air pressure drops to allow for proper breathing. When does the positive air pressure start again? Do I have to inhale for the pressure to ramp up? Is this not counter intuitive for apnea? I thought the purpose of the positive air pressure was to force open the airway to prevent/alleviate obstruction?

OK - two more questions: Does anybody have any advice on why the forum does not want to add my machine to my signature line? It shows up properly in the UserCP Profile area.

Here is the screen capture of the pie chart and the stats. Apart from my leak rate that went down, it seems the other things all took a turn for the worse. Any insights would be appreciated!

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Julie
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by Julie » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:09 pm

There was a glitch re adding your model of machine - you're not alone.

You can test what pressures to use by starting low for a few nights (NOT just one), seeing results and then moving higher. For instance, set the low pressure at 6 or 7 (anything less is useless and breathing difficult) and the high at e.g. 11 or 13. The point being that if your software shows you spent 90-95% of the night at around 9 or 10 cm/pressure, then you have an idea of where to set the low pressure for a while (a longer test period), e.g. 8, and leave the high pressure where it was or a bit higher - because too high and the machine could take too long to address events at e.g. 15 and be ineffective. But don't start too high, and if your testing points to ever higher low pressures being needed (e.g. 12-15) then you need to look at other factors because moving higher than that can provoke centrals (clear airway events) that won't register on the machine, but will damage you in the long run... we all have a handful when going to sleep or awakening, but lots all night are not good.

The other thing an apparent increasing pressure need could mean is that you do need a full face mask because the higher the pressure, the stronger the likelihood it will push open your mouth and defeat the purpose. And don't forget that however severe your study was rated at - how many events you had then - it doesn't correlate to needing more pressure to keep your individual airway open.. apples and oranges... you can have a 'mild' result on testing (only a few events) but might still need a high pressure setting to keep your airway open, and vice versa. PS - love the lion! PPS - trade you V. Island for snowy NB... no?
Last edited by Julie on Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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robysue
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by robysue » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:33 pm

Africassie wrote: SleepyToo2: Since I have had no instruction on how to operate my machine, I am flying blind. How am I supposed to find out which settings are best? Is there a guide somewhere that could tell me what settings to use or suggested combinations of settings? I am sometimes not even sure what impact my changes really have.
You need to get into the clinical menu. You can go to http://www.apneaboard.com and request a copy of the clinical menu for your machine. You'll have to register as a user over there.
One more question: As I understand it, the machine I have, the C-Flex Plus machine, has variable air pressure. When one exhales, the machine's air pressure drops to allow for proper breathing. When does the positive air pressure start again? Do I have to inhale for the pressure to ramp up?
You are using the PR REMstar System One Pro with C-Flex Plus (model 450 or 460), which is a fixed pressure machine that records full efficacy data and has an exhalation relief system called C-Flex Plus.

Now to answer your questions:

The way C-Flex Plus work is this: At the beginning of each exhalation, the pressure is reduced to a lower, but still positive air pressure. Exactly how much the pressure drops at the beginning of the exhalation depends on both the Flex setting and the force of the exhalation. The more forceful the exhalation, the greater the drop in pressure. But the exhale pressure will never drop more than 1-3cm below your pressure setting AND the exhalation pressure will never drop below 4cm. So throughout the exhalation you are still dealing with an airway that has positive air pressure being added by the machine. To give you a couple of working examples:

If your pressure setting is 8cm and Flex is set to 3, at the beginning of an exhalation the pressure will be dropped to somewhere between 5 and 7.5cm.

If your pressure setting is 6 cm and Flex is set to 3, at the beginning of an exhalation the pressure will be dropped to somewhere between 4 and 5.5 cm.


And under the C-Flex Plus system, the pressure is increased about half-way back up about halfway into the exhalation and the pressure is increased all the way back up at the beginning of the next inhalation.
When does the positive air pressure start again? Do I have to inhale for the pressure to ramp up? Is this not counter intuitive for apnea? I thought the purpose of the positive air pressure was to force open the airway to prevent/alleviate obstruction?
Your CPAP does NOT try to force open a collapsed airway to "alleviate obstruction." That would require the machine to act as a non-invasive ventilator. Rather the machine provides positive air pressure even during the exhalation to make it more difficult for your airway to collapse. The system is very good at preventing apneas and hypopneas from occurring, but it is not perfect: A few events will likely occur each night, but the overall number of events will be low enough to keep your treated AHI under 5.0, and probably well under 5.0, each night you use the machine.

Because your machine is a fixed pressure machine it will not respond to the events that get through the CPAP defenses. Since your machine is the PR System One Pro with C-Flex Plus (moded 450 or 460), the machine will record when each of the events that get by the CPAP happen. In fact, the machine will record a record of each and every breath you take all night long. But because the machine is programed to run with a fixed pressure setting, it will not respond to those events by increasing the pressure.

In order to get a machine that can increase the pressure in response to the events that get by the PAP defenses, you need to have a PR System One Auto CPAP (model 550 or 560). But even the PR System One Auto will NOT increase the pressure during an apnea or a hypopnea (that would make it a non-invasive ventilator). Rather the Auto PAP will increase the pressure after the apnea or hypopnea is over and you restart breathing on your own. The idea is to prevent additional events from happening rather than trying to "fix" the event in progress.
ere is the screen capture of the pie chart and the stats. Apart from my leak rate that went down, it seems the other things all took a turn for the worse. Any insights would be appreciated!
Data from one night is not long enough to really say much of anything. But: On this night your treated AHI is a bit higher than desired since it is above 5.0. But it's not that much above 5.0. Sometimes the treated AHI takes a few days or a couple of weeks to drop down to where it becomes more or less stable.

Next, most of the events that the machine was not able to prevent were Hypopneas. A hypopnea is scored when the air flow decreases by at least 50% from the running baseline and the reduction lasts for at least 10 seconds. Loosely a hypopnea occurs when the airway is partially blocked, but not fully obstructed. It is kind of like breathing through a very narrow straw and too many hypopneas can lead to the same problems that too many apneas lead to: Arousals (to kick start the breathing) and (potentially) O2 desaturations.

From the numerical data the leaks appear to be under control. On the PR System Ones, the official Encore software tends to score official Large Leaks only when the total leak rate gets up above 70-90 L/min. (The line seems to be dependent on the pressure setting and PR has not published what the criteria are for scoring an official Large Leak.)

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Africassie
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Re: Please help me figure this out?

Post by Africassie » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:36 pm

Thank you Julie & robysue!

I have registered on apneaboard and received my copy of the clinical manual. There is so much to learn and figure out! My machine is now adjusted so I can see my AHI in the morning on the machine's display and I changed some other things too. I will give the changes some time to settle in and then come bug you again for more clarity

I am from South Africa originally - hence the lion. Thanks for the offer, Julie, but VI is about as cold as I can stand it right now...

Here is my pie chart from last night. I am on a good path now, I think. (Well, at least I feel better about my machine, knowing that I could fall back on this forum for more reassurance & info!) My RERA events still seem a bit high, though.

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