Ralph Nader on the superiority of Canadian Health Care

[johnthomasmacdonald]

Dear America:

Costly complexity is baked into Obamacare. No health insurance system is without problems but Canadian style single-payer full Medicare for all is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal.

In the early 1960s, President Lyndon Johnson enrolled 20 million elderly Americans into Medicare in six months. There were no websites. They did it with index cards!

Below please find 21 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare.

Repeal Obamacare and replace it with the much more efficient single-payer, everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital.

Love, Canada

Number 21:
In Canada, everyone is covered automatically at birth – everybody in, nobody out.

In the United States, under Obamacare, 31 million Americans will still be uninsured by 2023 and millions more will remain underinsured.

Number 20:
In Canada, the health system is designed to put people, not profits, first.

In the United States, Obamacare will do little to curb insurance industry profits and will actually enhance insurance industry profits.

Number 19:
In Canada, coverage is not tied to a job or dependent on your income – rich and poor are in the same system, the best guaranty of quality.

In the United States, under Obamacare, much still depends on your job or income. Lose your job or lose your income, and you might lose your existing health insurance or have to settle for lesser coverage.

Number 18:
In Canada, health care coverage stays with you for your entire life.

In the United States, under Obamacare, for tens of millions of Americans, health care coverage stays with you for as long as you can afford your share.

Number 17:
In Canada, you can freely choose your doctors and hospitals and keep them. There are no lists of “in-network” vendors and no extra hidden charges for going “out of network.”

In the United States, under Obamacare, the in-network list of places where you can get treated is shrinking – thus restricting freedom of choice – and if you want to go out of network, you pay for it.

Number 16:
In Canada, the health care system is funded by income, sales and corporate taxes that, combined, are much lower than what Americans pay in premiums.

In the United States, under Obamacare, for thousands of Americans, it’s pay or die – if you can’t pay, you die. That’s why many thousands will still die every year under Obamacare from lack of health insurance to get diagnosed and treated in time.

Number 15:
In Canada, there are no complex hospital or doctor bills. In fact, usually you don’t even see a bill.

In the United States, under Obamacare, hospital and doctor bills will still be terribly complex, making it impossible to discover the many costly overcharges.

Number 14:
In Canada, costs are controlled. Canada pays 10 percent of its GDP for its health care system, covering everyone.

In the United States, under Obamacare, costs continue to skyrocket. The U.S. currently pays 18 percent of its GDP and still doesn’t cover tens of millions of people.

Number 13:
In Canada, it is unheard of for anyone to go bankrupt due to health care costs.

In the United States, under Obamacare, health care driven bankruptcy will continue to plague Americans.

Number 12:
In Canada, simplicity leads to major savings in administrative costs and overhead.

In the United States, under Obamacare, complexity will lead to ratcheting up administrative costs and overhead.

Number 11:
In Canada, when you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing they ask you is: “What’s wrong?”

In the United States, the first thing they ask you is: “What kind of insurance do you have?”

Number 10:
In Canada, the government negotiates drug prices so they are more affordable.

In the United States, under Obamacare, Congress made it specifically illegal for the government to negotiate drug prices for volume purchases, so they remain unaffordable.

Number 9:
In Canada, the government health care funds are not profitably diverted to the top one percent.

In the United States, under Obamacare, health care funds will continue to flow to the top. In 2012, CEOs at six of the largest insurance companies in the U.S. received a total of $83.3 million in pay, plus benefits.

Number 8:
In Canada, there are no necessary co-pays or deductibles.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the deductibles and co-pays will continue to be unaffordable for many millions of Americans.

Number 7:
In Canada, the health care system contributes to social solidarity and national pride.

In the United States, Obamacare is divisive, with rich and poor in different systems and tens of millions left out or with sorely limited benefits.

Number 6:
In Canada, delays in health care are not due to the cost of insurance.

In the United States, under Obamacare, patients without health insurance or who are underinsured will continue to delay or forgo care and put their lives at risk.

Number 5:
In Canada, nobody dies due to lack of health insurance.

In the United States, under Obamacare, many thousands will continue to die every year due to lack of health insurance.

Number 4:
In Canada, an increasing majority supports their health care system, which costs half as much, per person, as in the United States. And in Canada, everyone is covered.

In the United States, a majority – many for different reasons – oppose Obamacare.

Number 3:
In Canada, the tax payments to fund the health care system are progressive – the lowest 20 percent pays 6 percent of income into the system while the highest 20 percent pays 8 percent.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the poor pay a larger share of their income for health care than the affluent.

Number 2:
In Canada, the administration of the system is simple. You get a health care card when you are born. And you swipe it when you go to a doctor or hospital. End of story.

In the United States, Obamacare’s 2,500 pages plus regulations (the Canadian Medicare Bill was 13 pages) is so complex that then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said before passage “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”

Number 1:
In Canada, the majority of citizens love their health care system.

In the United States, the majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – single-payer, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out.

[robysue]

In the United States, the majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – single-payer, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out.

I regret to say this, but I do NOT believe the majority of Americans prefer a single payer system. We have been rejecting the idea of a single payer health care system for the last 70 years or so. And please understand, I say this as an American who actually supports the idea of going to a single payer system like the Canadian system.

[Bobshouse]

Number 22. If you get a serious illness in Canada, seek treatment in the United States.

We have problems with our healthcare, but Obamacare is not the way to go. We need to repeal Obamacare before it's to late.

[LSAT]

I believe the OP wishes he were in Canada...maybe he should move there. I don't know where he gets this BS.

[johnthomasmacdonald]

I believe the OP wishes he were in Canada...maybe he should move there. I don't know where he gets this BS.

Quote is from ralph nader but EVERY independent evaluation of the US healthcare system rates it pretty far down the list of industrialized ( and some not so industrialized nations). Do some work, look it up. As to moving to Canada, I can't as I'm already getting European citizenship.

[hyperlexis]

THIS IS REALLY AN OT, POLITICAL SUBJECT. ITS HIS OPINION AND NOT, FRANKLY, EVEN NEEDING A RESPONSE ON THE MERITS.

CANT WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE? EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THE KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY?

[johnthomasmacdonald]

THIS IS REALLY AN OT, POLITICAL SUBJECT. ITS HIS OPINION AND NOT, FRANKLY, EVEN NEEDING A RESPONSE ON THE MERITS.

CANT WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE? EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THE KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY?

if you think the specifics of our health care system is off topic to this forum, you haven't been watching very closely. Pretty much EVERYTHING about your sleep apnea treatment is determined by the quality of the health insurance that you have - that's the reality.

[hyperlexis]

THIS IS REALLY AN OT, POLITICAL SUBJECT. ITS HIS OPINION AND NOT, FRANKLY, EVEN NEEDING A RESPONSE ON THE MERITS.

CANT WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE? EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THE KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY?

if you think the specifics of our health care system is off topic to this forum, you haven't been watching very closely. Pretty much EVERYTHING about your sleep apnea treatment is determined by the quality of the health insurance that you have - that's the reality.

OK whatever you say man.

[johnthomasmacdonald]

THIS IS REALLY AN OT, POLITICAL SUBJECT. ITS HIS OPINION AND NOT, FRANKLY, EVEN NEEDING A RESPONSE ON THE MERITS.

CANT WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE? EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THE KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY?

if you think the specifics of our health care system is off topic to this forum, you haven't been watching very closely. Pretty much EVERYTHING about your sleep apnea treatment is determined by the quality of the health insurance that you have - that's the reality.

OK whatever you say man.

what i don't get is why it gets so personal and so angry so fast. If you disagree with Nader's perspective, provide the evidence that you feel indicates that the system in the USA is better or ignore the post entirely. I find it very telling how angry so many americans get when you raise these issues which are fundamental to any and all disease treatments. My treatment, my tests, my machines, how often i see my doctor, what supplies i get and how often I get them are mainly determined by my insurance company along with what i've paid out of pocket.

[Goofproof]

THIS IS REALLY AN OT, POLITICAL SUBJECT. ITS HIS OPINION AND NOT, FRANKLY, EVEN NEEDING A RESPONSE ON THE MERITS.

CANT WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE? EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THE KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY?

POINT TAKEN!

Lets dig Kennedy up and find out who had him killed and this time get the correct people. After that we could speculate, what life would be like in the U.S. if Lincoln hadn't been shot. Jim

[49er]

THIS IS REALLY AN OT, POLITICAL SUBJECT. ITS HIS OPINION AND NOT, FRANKLY, EVEN NEEDING A RESPONSE ON THE MERITS.

CANT WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE? EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THE KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY?

POINT TAKEN!

Lets dig Kennedy up and find out who had him killed and this time get the correct people. After that we could speculate, what life would be like in the U.S. if Lincoln hadn't been shot. Jim

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/b ... ncoln.html

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

49er

[49er]

In the United States, the majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – single-payer, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out.

I regret to say this, but I do NOT believe the majority of Americans prefer a single payer system. We have been rejecting the idea of a single payer health care system for the last 70 years or so. And please understand, I say this as an American who actually supports the idea of going to a single payer system like the Canadian system.

Is it Americans rejecting single payer or is it impossible politically for this to ever occur? I mean, Obama never even invited single payer advocates to the table when insurance reform was being discussed even though I thought I recall the polls at the time stating a majority favored it.

49er

[Julie]

I think it's possible that Americans are afraid of universal care because they've been so tangled up in their own system of HMO's, Insce., copays, etc. etc. for so long they literally can't see past it all and worry they'd somehow lose something if there was a change. But try to envision a world where whatever else (financial) you might be involved in to whatever extent, medical care just wasn't in there... not relevant... if you're sick, you go get help from either a doctor or hospital and then walk out. Period. No discussion about money at any level. Nothing to lose!

[SleepyBobR]

Nader has a rather idealized view of the Canadian system which does have problems with rising costs, inefficiencies and waiting lists among other things. That said, I do prefer our system at this point because of the high costs and almost pathological complexity in the US system (from my limited experience with travel insurance). Until and unless the US can get rising health care costs under control, the problem can't be fixed with insurance alone. If the care itself is unaffordable, so will be the insurance without government subsidies. And if subsidies are required for many, then it really isn't insurance anyway. Not sure what the solution is here but it's looking like Obamacare isn't going to be the answer. The young and healthy will not voluntarily pay more so older people and those with pre existing conditions can afford coverage.

[Joe Snooze]

Having lived and worked in health care in both countries I can tell you there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems.

The problem with the Canadian system is the long delays in treatment of non-critical conditions.

A couple of years ago my wife had a torn miniscus in her knee. She mad an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon who she saw the next week. He sent her for an MRI that she had three days later. The following week she had surgery.

In Canada the wait to see an orthopedic surgeon for this is a year. That's just the initial consultation. The wait for an MRI is six months. Then the average wait for the actual surgery is another year.
That's two and a half years with limited mobility and pain.