BiPAP Cures Aerophagia

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:48 am

. . . for practical purposes anyway . . .

I wasn't sure I really believed it when DSM posted about aerophagia occurring during exhale, but I happened to have a spare BiPAP-auto in the basement, so . . .

I switched to the BiPAP-auto 15 days ago, and have had less aerophagia than before, even though my pressures have been higher than with APAP. For the past five days I've even had the BiPAP set to constant pressures which, amazingly, reduced my residual apneas to near-zero, and also seems to have reduced aerophagia further as well.

From what I've seen on this board, it's not exactly mainstream to be using a BiPAP at an IPAP pressure of 9 cm, but I couldn't stomach (literally) a constant pressure of 9 cm on CPAP, and occasionally even had problems with it in APAP mode on a bad night.

I've haven't seen anyone describing worse aerophagia than I get, so I have to think that going to BiPAP probably would fix the problem for most. Usually, folks notice aerophagia when they start on therapy, so considering insurance, switching to a BiPAP at that time would be a minimal expense for most.

Anyway, just my recent experience. Anybody else observed this?

Regards,
Bill (greatly relieved from the pressures of aerophagia)

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:44 am

Bill,

Sounds like you found the combination that may work....especially if it knocks out your apneas.
Hope it continues for you.

Best wishes,

Den

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:49 am

Don't we all wish we had a spare bipap auto just sitting around in the basement to try. Md says he may put me on bipap at next visit if I'm still having so much trouble exhaling and trouble with aerophagia. And as I have been on cpap about a year and my cpap became mine in January (rented for 10 months and then it was mine,) I am not sure if my insurance is going to cover it. Does anyone else have any experience with a situation such as this?

I am ready to hit the magic combination and feel better. I can stand up straight now and don't have a constant headache 24-7 anymore but I have yet to get the return of energy and wake up feeling really rested. Not ready to quit yet though.

roztom · Post by **roztom** » Sat May 06, 2006 3:25 pm

Bill:

Did you have C-Flex turned on with your APAP?

If so, did you try your APAP without C-Flex?

DO you think that could impact the aerophagia?

Tnx,

Tom

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): C-FLEX, APAP

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat May 06, 2006 6:08 pm

roztom wrote:Bill:

Did you have C-Flex turned on with your APAP?

If so, did you try your APAP without C-Flex?

DO you think that could impact the aerophagia?

Tom,

I did try C-flex a while back, but couldn't tolerate it because of a tendency toward hyperventilation. Of course, back then BiPAP had been a problem for me too. When I got out the BiPAP-auto recently, it was more of an experiment as I didn't really think I could tolerate it. I was motivated to at least give it a fair chance again though, and to my surprise, I didn't have any problems using it the first night in auto-mode, but without Bi-flex. Since the first night was successful, I opted to turn on Bi-flex the next night. Again expecting failure, I was surprised to benefit from Bi-flex, and I've left it on since. I now have Bi-flex set to its maximum relief. With the EPAP set to 6 cm, I've watched on the display as the pressure drops down from there. Seems like it sometimes even goes below 3 cm.

While I haven't recently tried C-flex, Tom, I suspect it could provide some protection from aerophagia, although not nearly what is afforded by the BiPAP and Bi-flex combination.

I'll let others explore C-flex though. I feel like I've just made a big step forward here recently and want to see if I can dial this in just a little better. My hypopneas are still too many (HI=3.75), and I want to see if I can reduce them by minor changes to the settings.

Regards,
Bill

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:02 pm

Oh, guys, thanks for the idea about using Cflex to cure/help aerophagia. I have it bad and I've been on the therapy since the beginning of June, almost a year now. I will go so far as to say, it's the worst side effect I experience from therapy.

I am going to set my Remstar to 3 on Cflex tonight and see what happens. I, too, turned mine off in the very beginning because I had those breath stacks that truly freaked me out when it happened. I felt, too, like I was hyperventilating. And since I've had no trouble exhaling again my pressure, I never went back. But if it can help with aerophagia, it's worth a true again. Thank you so much for the idea.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:19 pm

Lori,

As far as the aerophagia, have you been able to tell if it makes any difference which mask (interface) you use?
Are you still using the UMFF, or did you go back to the Aura?

Best wishes,

Den

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:35 pm

Sleepless on LI wrote:Oh, guys, thanks for the idea about using Cflex to cure/help aerophagia.

Hope it helps, Lori. Let us know how successful it is for you. Also, if you can get a BiPAP to try, that might be worth your while too.

Regards,
Bill

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:49 pm

Den,
I had one night of luck with the UMFF. I have little to no tolerance for fooling around waiting for a mask to work or not, so I went back to the Aura. Plus, it actually was waking my husband up when it would leak. I have also tried the FlexiFit 407, which is not horrible, but I can't find anything else I like as much as the Aura, so...as far as the aerophagia, it is there every night, like clockwork, consistently regardless of what mask I use. Last night, when I tried the Fixodent on my lips, surprisingly it wasn't there (or at least neither myself or my husband noticed it, and that's unusual) and I woke up without that horrible feeling which is present every morning still. So tonight I'll turn up the Cflex to 3 and just maybe I'll get a break from that painful pain in the gut.

Bill,
I wish I had a bipap laying around to try. If this Cflex works somewhat, maybe I will speak to my doctor about getting a bipap machine. My insurance company bought me my Remstar Auto last July, so I don't know how possible it is, if at all, that they are going to buy me another machine so soon, even though it's a different type. But it may be worth a try if indeed it helps with stomach discomfort.

I am very curious to see how things go tonight. After sleeping through the night last night till 6 AM with the Fixodent, I think perhaps because it may not have caused me to wake up due to noise from the mask when opening my mouth, I'll be interested to see if the Cflex and that get me another night of sleeping through. I think it's too much to ask, though.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:06 pm

Sleepless on LI wrote:I wish I had a bipap laying around to try.

Yeah, I've been vacillating for months on how stupid my decision to buy the BiPAP-auto was. On the one hand insurance paid 100% for it; on the other hand I paid 100% for the Remstar-auto. I'm too much of a pack-rat to have gotten rid of the BiPAP-auto, so I'm pleased to make use of it again. .

You could also do as another frequent poster has done and start collecting old BiPAP's, Lori. I may do that myself if current trends continue. This BiPAP-auto is pretty bulky for traveling.

Regards,
Bill

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:11 pm

Bill,

When you say I could starting collecting old bipaps, wow would you do that? I was thinking that if the insurance is a no-go, which I kind of figure it will be (IF I even get to the stage of thinking I want one because it will help), maybe I'll start checking for auctions. I've been pretty fortunate with the ones I've won, but I know it's a risky venture to go that route. But if you don't pay too much...

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:23 pm

Sleepless on LI wrote:When you say I could starting collecting old bipaps, wow would you do that?

I guess I was exaggerating about the collection part, but you got the drift anyway about the "pre-owned" part. I already have a collection of old radios. Don't really need another collection just yet. .

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:09 am

Jeeze Bill who on earth would collect old BiPaps LOL

Anyway, am interested in any feedback you can add re relief from aerophagia

Also I tended to blame cflex of 3 for it as well as mouth pops. Low cflex (1 or 2) seem to be ok.

Any additional feedback welcomed.

DSM

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:37 am

dsm wrote:Also I tended to blame cflex of 3 for it as well as mouth pops. Low cflex (1 or 2) seem to be ok.

Any additional feedback welcomed.

DSM

Geeze, Louise, did I understand this whole thing wrong or what? I was under the mistaken impression that I should turn on my Cflex, turn it up to 3, and it would be almost like a bipap; hence, helping with aerophagia. Well, it doesn't matter anyway because after 23 mins. of trying fall asleep with my Cflex on 3, I got up, turned it off and that was it.

Cflex and I aren't compatible, never were, and never will be. It makes me far too conscious of my breathing and makes me feel, also, as if I'm almost skipping a beat with my respiration. Don't like it at all.

Thanks for the suggestions, anyhow.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sun May 07, 2006 12:38 pm

Sleepless on LI wrote:Cflex and I aren't compatible, never were, and never will be. It makes me far too conscious of my breathing and makes me feel, also, as if I'm almost skipping a beat with my respiration. Don't like it at all.

I understand, Lori. A few months ago, with both the BiPAP and C-flex, I felt like the machine was forcing me to take breaths before I was ready. I don't currently have that problem though, and the one change I can point to that helped stop this was eliminating leaks. In auto mode especially, with any leaks at all, the machines would not only force early breaths, but would also keep increasing pressure. There's something really funny about the Respironics algorithm that makes it force premature breathing on some of us if leaks aren't absolutely minimal.

Don't hold all this against BiPAP's generally though, as I suspect the problem you encountered pertains specifically to the Respironics algorithm. DSM has commented on this before regarding Respironics BiPAP machines. Apparently other BiPAP machines are more neutral in their response. I think the Respironics algorithm is constructed so that it anticipates breathing and because of this can switch modes before the user (at least for some of us) has actually begun the next breath. While I haven't used other manufacturer's machines, I find it easy to believe that simpler algorithms, which do not anticipate, but instead actually wait until the breath begins before switching modes, would not have the same problem.

Just my thinking though. Can't say I'd recommend you spending a lot on a BiPAP though, even though changing to a BiPAP has greatly benefitted me. Maybe there's some way you could get a BiPAP to try or even rent for a month. That would surely be a lot less expensive way to find out if one would work for you. Seems like DME's would have a few used machines available. They really should allow test drives, or nights, don't ya think?

Regards,
Bill