What is a Mouth Dam

arizonaartie · Post by **arizonaartie** » Tue May 02, 2006 2:29 pm

I am a mouth breather and tried, w/o success making a DIY mouthpiece to press tongue against top of mouth. Using Chin Straps keep my teeth clenched but I still breath through my lips. 2" Paper Tape across mouth works only sometimes. I have a 13 pressure setting and my recently purchases Everest Aura Nose mask seems to create too much pressure and is difficult particularly on the exhale portion which causes my mouth to open to exhale. 13 works fine on full face mask but they hurt my nose bridge and leave sore red marks.
Would I be a candidate for the Mouth/Teeth Dam? If so, how do I make one or where do I buy one.
arizonaartie

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:06 pm

IIRC, a mouth dam is a device used by dentists while they work on someone's teeth ?. Again IIRC, they are designed to manage the fluid in a patients mouth as well as to protect the dentist.

Cheers

DSM

chdurie2 · Post by **chdurie2** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:29 pm

hi--what is the problem you are trying to solve, the one for which you think the mouth dam will be a good solution? maybe we can help that way.

Caroline

arizonaartie · Post by **arizonaartie** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:22 am

The problem I'm trying to solve is a way to stop mouth breathing so I can switch from a full face mask tomy newly purchased HEADREST with Nasal Seal mask from Everest Aura.
I can't stop mouth breathing after I fall asleep. I tried the DIY Mouthguard approach and it didn't work. Sometimes taping my mouth works but not always since my 13 pressure seems to eventually cause it to fail.
WILL A MOUTH DAM STOP ME FROM BEING A MOUTH BREATHER?

mikemoran · Post by **mikemoran** » Wed May 03, 2006 3:21 pm

It might stop you from mouth breathing but it would kill your jaw. The mouth dam is a frame to which your dentist stretches a rubber membrane over. They then use a clamp around your tooth to isolate it and open the membrane up only over your tooth. The problem is a mouth damn also makes you keep your mouth as wide open as possible so a dentist can work on your tooth. I have had a few root canals where it is used and I can tell you that my jaw was in agony after wearing it for 40 minutes. This isn't a good path for you to follow.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:45 pm

I have to agree.....I have never heard the words "MOUTH DAM" in THAT order.....outside of a dentist's office.

Maybe you could try the denture adhesive that was being discussed on the forum today. Sounds like an interesting idea to me.

Best wishes,

Den

snork1 · Post by **snork1** » Thu May 04, 2006 10:28 am

Could this be a reference to a CPAP lab-rats experiments with using a strip of soft silicone between the teeth and lips, in conjuction with a chin strap, as a "mouth dam" to attempt to stop mouth leaks?

This archaic practice fell into the ancient archives as it was displaced by superior technology, including DIY tongue guides and Denture cream.

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Thu May 04, 2006 10:49 am

arizonaartie,

This is probably not the answer (quick fix) you're looking for, but some believe there is a way to train yourself not to mouth breathe. If you take the tip of your tongue and place it behind your top two middle teeth and then kind of curve the front part of the tongue to push up against the roof of your mouth, you will see you won't be able to breathe through the mouth. If you practice while you're awake as often as you can remember, and then place your tongue in that position while trying to fall asleep, it could work for you.

Now, my skepticism always came with, once you do fall asleep, what will prevent you from letting your tongue fall back to the natural position it always stayed in before. But some have argued that we get trained at an early age, even though we're asleep, not to go too close to the edge of the mattress or we'll fall off, so it IS possible to train yourself to keep your tongue in that position once you are asleep.

I do it all the time and don't tape anymore. Am I mouth breathing? I don't know. If I am, it isn't affecting my therapy, so it doesn't really matter. But it won't cost you a dime to try this and it may work for you.

Sorry I don't have the magic fix, but hang around and I'm sure you'll get all the suggestions possible from the folks on this site here and hopefully one will suit you. Good luck.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:45 am

It sure would be nice if "training" yourself not to mouthe breathe while asleep was actually attainable. It is an interesting suggestion, but unfortunately, physiologically impossible.

Nathan/RRT wrote:Understand that when you are in stage 4 sleep, the cerebral cortex is asleep. The cerebral cortex is the thinking part of the brain and is where the control of your voluntary muscles is. This includes the tongue and mouth. So the idea of being able to "train" yourself to keep your mouth closed and maintain a seal while you are sleeping is absurd. You would lose that seal for the SAME reason that your tongue falls back in your throat and causes an obstruction. You may be able to condition yourself to spend less time in deep sleep, but you are then in the same situation/problem that arises from OSA in the first place, the lack of proper amounts of sleep that are so critical.

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-b ... hp?p=84765

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Thu May 04, 2006 12:03 pm

Anonymous wrote:It sure would be nice if "training" yourself not to mouthe breathe while asleep was actually attainable. It is an interesting suggestion, but unfortunately, physiologically impossible.

Nathan/RRT wrote:Understand that when you are in stage 4 sleep, the cerebral cortex is asleep. The cerebral cortex is the thinking part of the brain and is where the control of your voluntary muscles is. This includes the tongue and mouth. So the idea of being able to "train" yourself to keep your mouth closed and maintain a seal while you are sleeping is absurd. You would lose that seal for the SAME reason that your tongue falls back in your throat and causes an obstruction. You may be able to condition yourself to spend less time in deep sleep, but you are then in the same situation/problem that arises from OSA in the first place, the lack of proper amounts of sleep that are so critical.
http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-b ... hp?p=84765

snork1 · Post by **snork1** » Thu May 04, 2006 12:18 pm

soooo... I guess if you can't "train" the tongue to avoid mouth breathing, that teeth grinding during deep sleep, which is just another "habit" doesn't happen?

I would be glad it that tradeoff was true.

What you are trying to do is to develop a HABIT in response to a situation, i.e. breathing through your mouth.

Not all habits are bad habits.

You can also block off the air with the back of the tongue. Front or back works better for different people. Sit in bed with CPAP on to practice and experiment shutting the air off and on with your tongue with your mouth wide open.

And yes, sometimes you do need help to make it through deep sleep, but its only minimal help, after developing the habit, and may no longer be as drastic as wrapping your head with tape like a mummy.

Why do people get so riled over this being possible?

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Thu May 04, 2006 12:52 pm

snork1 wrote:Why do people get so riled over this being possible?

I think it's for the same reason physicians get so riled when patients contradict the wisdom they've just been blessed with. It's because they really want to believe that what they learned somewhere once is correct. Ergo, anything contradictory must be wrong.

It's much easier to do that than to entertain critical thinking. ( . . . sigh)

Pardon me for attempting to answer your rhetorical question, snork1.

Regards,
Bill

arizonaartie · Post by **arizonaartie** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:18 pm

Thanks to all that offered their opinions. I guess for now I'll just have to stick with my Ultra Mirage full face mask since I do get a full night's restful sleep with it.
arizonaartie

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:31 pm

It seems like it should be easy enough to find out whether or not it's possible. This RRT says it is physically impossible because your brain can't control voluntary muscles when you are asleep. Is that true? If it's true, then we have our answer. Does anybody know about this cerebral cortex thing?

If it is possible then why are so many of us struggling with chinstraps and tape and dental devices?

Come to think of it, if it is possible to train our mouth muscles not to relax while we're asleep, then it should be possible to train our throat and tongue muscles not to relax while we're asleep. Which would mean we could cure our own osa. So is that possible too?

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it should be easy enough to find out whether or not it's possible. This RRT says it is physically impossible because your brain can't control voluntary muscles when you are asleep. Is that true? If it's true, then we have our answer. Does anybody know about this cerebral cortex thing?

If it is possible then why are so many of us struggling with chinstraps and tape and dental devices?

Come to think of it, if it is possible to train our mouth muscles not to relax while we're asleep, then it should be possible to train our throat and tongue muscles not to relax while we're asleep. Which would mean we could cure our own osa. So is that possible too?

Wow, I think that's taking this to a whole other level now. Putting your tongue behind your teeth and training yourself to keep it there sounds a heck of a lot easier and more plausible to me than learning to keep your airways open. I don't even know how to do that when I'm awake. They just do it on their own naturally...geesh!

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