Arrrgh!! Insomnia

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

So frustrated right now. I have a conference to go and have to leave the house at 0700. Have been trying to get to sleep since 10:30pm. I've had my usually effective 1/2 tab vicoden, 1/2 tab benadryl and 5mg ambien (followed by a repeat dose of ambien), still not sleepy though I can tell I've had medications.

This was the whole reason I pursued this whole sleep study thing and wound up with the machine, which has been working great and allowing me to wean down all sleep meds. But insomnia rears it's nasty head tonight of all nights, when I have to get up early!!

I've now had a snack, browsed these boards and will try to lay down again and see if anything happens. I'm sure the main issue is that I continue to switch back and forth between a day schedule and night schedule every 3-4 days. So tomorrow night, I will intentionally be awake all night as I transition over.

Off to try again

PreemieNrsTiffy

[kaiasgram]

Tiffy -- Did you do a number on yourself like I often do when I know I have to get up early? I get stressed wanting to be able to fall asleep quickly, and you know how the rest of the story goes...

I hope you're not reading this due to being fast asleep in bed already!

[pandatx]

Me too Its 2 a.m here. I've been up since 1:30. I'm awake. That mask woke me up and now I can't get back to sleep. I'm sorry you're awake. I hate this insomnia too.

[poorflick]

If i dont fall asleep quickly after taking ambien it will keep me up all night.

[mollete]

Which gives me ANOTHER idea...

[Sheriff Buford]

Insomia is different from sleep apnea. You can have sleep apnea and not have insomia, or have insomia and not have sleep apnea. That being said, wearing the mask can and will prevent newbies from falling asleep so getting used to wearing the mask is important. Think of cpap therapy helping you to have better quality of sleep (and life), and try and separate the two.

Sheriff

[carbonman]

So frustrated right now. I have a conference to go and have to leave the house at 0700.
But insomnia rears it's nasty head tonight of all nights, when I have to get up early!!
PreemieNrsTiffy

Your mind is racing w/thoughts and worries of your conference.

Now, instead of drugs, snacking and blasting your brain w/light and activity of browsing the boards, begin reading:
Sound sleep, sound mind
--Barry Krakow

Try: Close your day technique, to calm your mind.

Next:
SOLO technique:
S stop doing
O Observe yourself: know your mind
L Let yourself be: just breathe
O Observe yourself: know your body
Relax

Finally, lie down.
Stop the racing mind:
TFI (thought, feeling, image) balancing
Bring your feelings and images to the forefront and
slow the thoughts(the racing mind).

Close your day
SOLO technique
TFI balancing

OSA and Insomnia - a meta study (of sorts)..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854710/

""Nonetheless, CBT is an intensive intervention requiring a high degree of motivation on the patient's behalf."
"a high degree of motivation on the patient's behalf."

These tools work....but are not easy to learn.
It takes effort and difficult introspection.

How bad do you want to sleep?

[49er]

At the risk of sounding snarky , I have to respectfully disagree with Carbonman. It isn't an issue of wanting it bad enough.

As Mollete implied, insomnia and Sleep Breathing Disorders are just a complex issue that there is no one size fits all solution. Perhaps PreemieNrsTiffy would be well served by reading Krakow's book and doing CBT. And by the way Carbonman, as I am sure you are well aware, Krakow advocates emotional processing skills before taking a shot at CBT.

Anyway, without asking more about her situation, I would be reluctant to recommend anything or make any assumptions. If I seem anal retentive about this, it is because in my situation which I have struggled with cpap therapy for months. In spite of being highly motivated, I have family members who think this is all insomnia related even after I told one that my sinuses were completely shut after waking up on apap machine after a few hours.

Thanks to Pugsy's mention in another thread of full face masks pressing on turbinate areas and worsening nasal congestion is causing me to reevaluate everything as far as which masks I should wear. CBT wouldn't have addressed these issues at all and would have made me frustrated as heck. Sadly, that would have been seen by professionals as lacking motivation when that would have been so untrue.

Again, insomnia is not a one size fits all solution and my guess is that everyone who has dealt with this issue is motivated as heck to find a solution since not sleeping is a miserable process. Let's keep that in mind when offered advice to people who deal with this issue.

49er

[carbonman]

At the risk of sounding snarky , I have to respectfully disagree with Carbonman. 49er

Snark on, dude. You may, at your discretion, disrespectfully disagree,
it's all good.

And by the way Carbonman, as I am sure you are well aware, Krakow advocates emotional processing skills before taking a shot at CBT.49er

I believe that is implied here:

It takes effort and difficult introspection.

I guess I assumed that anyone engaged in this board would have
the basic "emotional processing skills" to "take a shot at CBT".
....but we all know what is in every assumption.

CBT wouldn't have addressed these issues at all and would have made me frustrated as heck. 49er

I made no claim that CBT had anything to do w/OSA.

Let's keep that in mind when offered advice to people who deal with this issue. 49er

I keep in mind that any one reading this forum can judge for themselves
what advice/suggestions/recommedations they chose to entertain.
My advice/suggestions/recommedations are offered exactly that way,
your call.

That said, do you use any of the tools that I mentioned from Krakow's book?

I'm curious, because as many times as I have mentioned his book,
no one has every really responed that they have, in fact, learned or
consistently practice them.

[49er]

Hi Carbonman,

I will address your points and then respond to PreemieNrsTiffy as without thinking, I got the thread off course.

Regarding CBT, I definitely realize it doesn't help ASA. But my point is that too many people, particularly sleep professionals, assume it is the magical answer to insomnia when they don't take the time to make sure that all other issues have been troubleshooted regarding pap therapy that could be causing the problem.

Due to reading difficulties that I have had all my life that have been worsened by sleep apnea, I was not able to get through all of Krakow's book. I did look to see if it was available on audible and it isn't. Sorry, listening to the text to speech voice on the Kindle is cruel and unusual punishment:)

But to answer your question, when I wasn't sleeping at all last year, I did find alot of the concepts I was able to cover very helpful such as the day is done concept that you covered and not looking at the clock. Unfortunately, I didn't find it helpful regarding pap therapy and I am beginning to realize it was probably due to not having the right mask as the result of sinus congestion which doesn't respond to the traditional remedies.

Anyway, to the issues that PreemieNrsTiffy raised, I hope she did fall asleep after her post. I think Kaiasgram nailed it about how when you know you have to get up at a certain time, that can put pressure on you in feeling the urge to fall asleep.

I also noticed that she said she rotates between shifts every 3-4 days and in my opinion, that would make it very hard to develop a consistent sleeping pattern. Frankly, I could be wrong but I don't see how anything would be helpful in alleviating sleeping difficulties.

Let's keep that in mind when offered advice to people who deal with this issue. 49er

I keep in mind that any one reading this forum can judge for themselves
what advice/suggestions/recommedations they chose to entertain.
My advice/suggestions/recommedations are offered exactly that way,
your call.

That said, do you use any of the tools that I mentioned from Krakow's book?

I'm curious, because as many times as I have mentioned his book,
no one has every really responed that they have, in fact, learned or
consistently practice them.[/quote]

[RogerSC]

Had one of my unusual bouts with insomnia last night. Guess it's going around...laid awake for about 2 hours, took off the cpap (very very unusual) and finally went to sleep. Chalk it up to:

1. Had to be out of the house early this morning, so one of those sleep deadlines that never work *smile*, where you're squished by your usual bedtime and when you need to get up. And man, you've got to get some sleep before that morning time when you got to be up.

2. Some emotionally stressful stuff went on yesterday.

3. Too much food and drink, and the wrong kinds too close to bedtime.

Tonight I'm hoping to be relaxed, know that I'll be very tired *smile*, and will make sure that I watch what I eat and drink at least a couple of hours (or longer) before I go to bed. And no deadlines tomorrow morning that I'm aware of yet.

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

Hey y'all, it's the OP here. Great suggestions from all,though I've pretty much heard it all before. I would venture that if I kept my schedule consistent, I would probably never struggle. I wound up sleeping about 4 hours, though when I woke up I had removed my CPAP so who knows what the quality was. Sadly, I have become accustomed to sleep deprivation.

Most of the conference has been interesting though I did doze right after lunch.

I know my sleep habits are crummy, I know my night/day switching is a problem, but I sure love that night shift pay differential. Since starting CPAP my sleep has improved drastically and I am taking about half as much medication. I'm pretty happy with that improvement but was just frustrated last night.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions!

[DannyPh]

I did a Google search on Home remedies for Insomnia Yesterday and Found this. Two table spoons of Raw Honey and One Teas spoon of Cinnamon before Bed. I tried it and slept thru the Night with only One Minor arousal. My AHI was 1.1 and Leaks were @ 15 But I contribute the leaks to when I first Masked up and was adjusting the Mask. Also Raw Honey and Cinnamon have Numerous other Health factors too Numerous to mention but a simple Google will enlighten you. I Intend to continue the Raw Honey and Cinnamon

[carbonman]

Sorry, listening to the text to speech voice on the Kindle is cruel and unusual punishment:)

Agreed! Concept is wonderful, reality is difficult.

I did find alot of the concepts I was able to cover very helpful such as the day is done concept that you covered and not looking at the clock.

Clock watching /calculating was huge for me.
Much like trying to stop smoking.....but it is done now.

Close your day begins the process.
SOLO is not only prep for sleep, but can be used throughout the day.
I slip into an empty conf. room or abandoned cube to calm myself.

TFI Balancing is the crutial tool. It gives you the ability to turn
off that run away train of thought. The anger, fear, frustration, anxiety....
from the day or antisipation of the next day. Anyone can benefit from
the practice of TFI balancing.

I'm a poster child for Krakow. I made a journey to and through the
gates of my personal hell in a CBT group, with a very talented therapist.
When I found SS,SM, I was well versed in how to make CBT work.
CBT is not something you do and you're fixed. It is practiced.....
everyday.

.....just as cpap is.

[John from Brookston]

Went to bed last night, got the pillow all punched-up so it wouldn't press on my mask, then turned the light out and started thinking about something but I can't remember what it was because I was out in 3 minutes.
Something of no great importance, but enough to distract the lizard brain so i could fall asleep.

Nothing kills sleep for me faster than "I gotta get to sleep! I gotta get up early! Why is it taking so long?!?".
Except last night, I was cruising Amazon and looking at book previews and one I looked at had a list of all the famous people with OSA who died in their sleep... *NOT* soothing! That added an hour and a half to bedtime...