Social Security?

[quietmorning]

During the last couple of days several of the posts - and my own struggle with my current sleep and trying to work when it is so difficult to pay attention to anything - made me wonder if Social Security considers certain sleep disorders - sleep apnea included as a disability if the person is really truly incapacitated by it. I know there are many people out there that even though everything is fine as far as the AHI is concerned, they are still incredibly fatigued.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks!

[LinkC]

Generally, a treated AHI at 5 or under is "effective treatment". I doubt SS differs, regardless of how you feel or function.

[stage0]

I understand that sleep deprivation can get you down. OSA is a treatable sleep disorder. Healthy living also include being involved in the community via working, volunteering advocacy or some involvement. Do you really want to declare a life of poverty to get some small check.

[quietmorning]

Generally, a treated AHI at 5 or under is "effective treatment". I doubt SS differs, regardless of how you feel or function.

I think I'm going to look this up this weekend. I just saw the guidelines - and it looks to be the ability to perform specific types of tasks. And like the young may who is having such a hard time that posted this afternoon - maybe this is someone who actually needs to be and SHOULD BE defined as having a very real disability - and be able to survive with some assistance.

[quietmorning]

I understand that sleep deprivation can get you down. OSA is a treatable sleep disorder. Healthy living also include being involved in the community via working, volunteering advocacy or some involvement. Do you really want to declare a life of poverty to get some small check.

No, not me. I'm fine. I'm struggling, but I'm not going to homeless if I lose my job. But there are others - that are obviously not doing well and are two inches from the street - or some of us in the past HAVE been there.

This is what I'm referring too. When this gets so detrimental to life.

That 'small check' may mean the difference of surviving or not to some.

[kaiasgram]

I understand that sleep deprivation can get you down. OSA is a treatable sleep disorder. Healthy living also include being involved in the community via working, volunteering advocacy or some involvement. Do you really want to declare a life of poverty to get some small check.

No, not me. I'm fine. I'm struggling, but I'm not going to homeless if I lose my job. But there are others - that are obviously not doing well and are two inches from the street - or some of us in the past HAVE been there.

This is what I'm referring too. When this gets so detrimental to life.

That 'small check' may mean the difference of surviving or not to some.

quietmorning, I'm glad there are some compassionate folks like you asking questions like this. Getting sleep disordered breathing under control does not necessarily eliminate the whole impact of OSA. There is research documenting neurological changes associated with OSA but to the best of my knowledge this has not gotten much attention in clinical settings. It seems more than plausible to me that some people (especially those with other medical vulnerabilities) could be affected by OSA to the degree that they might legitimately qualify for disability.

[Goofproof]

I have a hangnail, I cut it back but it keeps growing back crooked, when am I going to be able to apply for Social Security, to help me with this terrible affliction. Will I have to relocate to one of the eleven current states that have more people on welfare than working. sad indeed Jim

[LSAT]

It was on the news tonight that there are 900,000 returning veterans waiting for disability payments. The wait is averaging 275 days. In New York state the wait is 2 years. To qualify for Federal Disability you need to prove that your affliction cannot be cured...it is permanent. I don't believe that many people could prove that their OSA is a permanent disability that cannot be cured.

[kteague]

The issue is not whether OSA can be effectively treated, it is if the damage is reversible enough to restore function to the degree they are employable, and if there are other conditions that have a combined effect of compromising employability.

The process of getting disability and the reality of living on it is certainly no easy way out. Talked with a young man last week who looked to be at death's door, pale, sweaty, skaky, frail. He was leaning on his walker holding a cardboard sign asking for help. Sign said he was waiting on disability. He told me the hard part was knowing his disabilty would go through, but that it would be too late for him to see it.

Let's not lose sight of legitimate needs because some scumbags scam the system.

[49er]

The issue is not whether OSA can be effectively treated, it is if the damage is reversible enough to restore function to the degree they are employable, and if there are other conditions that have a combined effect of compromising employability.

The process of getting disability and the reality of living on it is certainly no easy way out. Talked with a young man last week who looked to be at death's door, pale, sweaty, skaky, frail. He was leaning on his walker holding a cardboard sign asking for help. Sign said he was waiting on disability. He told me the hard part was knowing his disabilty would go through, but that it would be too late for him to see it.

Let's not lose sight of legitimate needs because some scumbags scam the system.

I was about ready to make this point but you said it very well Kteague. Lot of posters on this board including ones in this thread could take lessons from you, Kaisgram, and Quiet Morning regarding having compassion.

Once again, I am amazed at how judgmental people are on an apnea board. I mean, no one would dare say if my cancer can be treated, so can yours. But yet for some reason, people feel it is ok to say that about apnea without even knowing what the person's situation is. Unbelievable.

49er

[Drowsy Dancer]

"Chronic sleep disruptions caused by apnea can affect daytime alertness, intellectual ability, memory, and mood. But to qualify for disability benefits because of these problems, your symptoms must be severe. The SSA requires that your sleep apnea has caused cognitive or mood changes that limit your activities, your ability to function socially, or your ability to focus and keep up with work because of one of the following:

personality changes
memory problems
mood disturbances
cognitive disturbances (such as delusions or hallucinations)
emotional instability or poor impulse control, or
a loss of 15 I.Q. points or more."

I view the source of this information, however, as somewhat dubious: http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/medici ... apnea.html

[Todzo]

I believe that AHI is only part of the issues which develop as OSA is treated with PAP. Breathing instability is another major factor that I have learned to watch for and treat as well.

The three largest contributors to breathing instability that I have found in my journey using CPAP are (in order of importance):

1. Stress!! 2. Weight loss! 3. CPAP pressure.

If you do not take care of the breathing instability issues your sleep will still be fractured and you will not perform well.

I do wish I had known this years ago.

If you are under 50 SS is probably not a good direction for you. Hopefully you will find better therapy and be enabled to move on.

Job retraining was my first course as I moved toward SS. It did provide what was going to be a solution before I was later seriously assaulted and robbed - which shook up my nerves and made my CPAP therapy not work until I figured out the breathing stability issues - which took about six years.

Take care!

Todzo

[kteague]

It is true that a diagnosis of OSA in and of itself will not make one automatically qualify for disability. There are very few diagnoses that mean automatic approval, and even then, getting the monies is not immediate. It is the proven effect of the condition on the ability to perform job duties that determines approval or denial. In my case, none of my medical conditions alone would have gotten me approved (after 3 years of fighting) but rather it was their combined effects on my employability. My sleep disorders (OSA, PLMD) carried a big weight but I doubt I'd have been approved even though I wasn't worth a nickel to any employer. Add in that my back does not allow me to sit upright very long, so I sit in a reclined position nearly all the time. To vary much from that will surely initiate a period of forced total inactivity because I won't be able to move. And my legs need to stay elevated most of the day. Vary from that for a few days and they will swell to the point of seeping fluid out of the skin. That causes a cascade of problems that has ended in hospitalization a couple times with fluid in my chest and worsening of my shortness of breath. Not good for someone with lung disease.

In the same way that SS looks at combined effects, we have to consider that by the time many get their OSA diagnosed and treated, their health may have suffered in other ways that make CPAP now just the first piece of the puzzle in seeking wellness. I am one of those people. I know what utter misery I've endured, so my first instinct is empathy. For every fraud out there, multiple doctors had to be complicit in the scam. I just don't think fraud is all that easy, and I believe these cases are the exception, not the rule. They just get all the attention. A system that allows too much fraud certainly needs re-examined and repaired. Anybody know what percentage of disability cases are generally thought to be fraudulent?

If I must err, may I err on the side of kindness. It helps me sleep at night. I'd rather extend more kindness than one deserves than misjudge and withhold kindness from a suffering soul. But there's got to be a balance of personalities in the world or all systems would go broke even faster than they already are.

[49er]

It is true that a diagnosis of OSA in and of itself will not make one automatically qualify for disability. There are very few diagnoses that mean automatic approval, and even then, getting the monies is not immediate. It is the proven effect of the condition on the ability to perform job duties that determines approval or denial. In my case, none of my medical conditions alone would have gotten me approved (after 3 years of fighting) but rather it was their combined effects on my employability. My sleep disorders (OSA, PLMD) carried a big weight but I doubt I'd have been approved even though I wasn't worth a nickel to any employer. Add in that my back does not allow me to sit upright very long, so I sit in a reclined position nearly all the time. To vary much from that will surely initiate a period of forced total inactivity because I won't be able to move. And my legs need to stay elevated most of the day. Vary from that for a few days and they will swell to the point of seeping fluid out of the skin. That causes a cascade of problems that has ended in hospitalization a couple times with fluid in my chest and worsening of my shortness of breath. Not good for someone with lung disease.

In the same way that SS looks at combined effects, we have to consider that by the time many get their OSA diagnosed and treated, their health may have suffered in other ways that make CPAP now just the first piece of the puzzle in seeking wellness. I am one of those people. I know what utter misery I've endured, so my first instinct is empathy. For every fraud out there, multiple doctors had to be complicit in the scam. I just don't think fraud is all that easy, and I believe these cases are the exception, not the rule. They just get all the attention. A system that allows too much fraud certainly needs re-examined and repaired. Anybody know what percentage of disability cases are generally thought to be fraudulent?

If I must err, may I err on the side of kindness. It helps me sleep at night. I'd rather extend more kindness than one deserves than misjudge and withhold kindness from a suffering soul. But there's got to be a balance of personalities in the world or all systems would go broke even faster than they already are.

Once again KTeague, you have written a great post. Nothing for me to add to this except to say thank you.

49er

[Catalytic]

The problem is, SSA denies even legitimate claims, obvious claims. Someone close me fought them for 2 years before he finally got disability, his disabilities were well documented, and should have been approved immediately. He did receive back pay when he was finally approved, but of course a good chunk of it went to the attorney. His wife, received disability the month after she applied, with much less documentation of her problems.

(Please note, I'm not saying OSA isn't a legitimate disability, but I do think it will be hard to prove, which will likely mean denial after denial at first.) So, even if someone with OSA that isn't improved with CPAP did qualify, they would probably have to wait years for payment