Rubin Naiman on insomnia

[napstress]

A wonderful interview about insomnia with Rubin Naiman on by Sounds True:

http://www.soundstrue.com/weeklywisdom/ ... rsion=full

In this conversation, he discusses:
-hyperarousal
-darkness deficiency
-relationship with sleep and insomnia
-amount of time to spend in bed
-how to tell how much sleep we need
-what to do about sleep-maintenance insomnia
-napping
-dreams
-stages of sleep—and of wakefulness

[robysue]

I read the transcript.

This is a very enlightening interview on insomnia and our hyperaroused culture.

And if you're someone who's been rolling their eyes every time I tell an insomniac that "even normal people wake up at night" and that the problem is not the waking up, but rather their response to finding themselves awake, well, all I can say is please, please, please read the transcript or watch the interview.

That said, however, one thing Rubin Naiman says reminded me yet again of one of the things I so profoundly miss since my diagnosis. About 3/4 of the way through the interview, he says:

There's just something beautiful about keeping sleep close at hand. This is something I first saw with my dog, who's been gone for awhile, but years ago I used to watch him. And we would romp and play and I'd throw things, and we'd be doing things and we'd be active. [But] if I stopped to talk to somebody, or get on the phone or something, he would, within 10 seconds, just be right asleep. It's like he had something right as his side. I think animals do that, they keep sleep close at hand. It's just there. It's like, if you're not doing anything, it's like, "That's fine, don't worry about me. I'll take a nap." So I've learned a bit from dogs, and a little bit from cats about that. To keep sleep close at hand.

We were talking earlier about consciousness, and I think, when we have—it's sort of like carrying a secret with you. I think about people who smoke tobacco, for example. When I used to work with smokers, would say, "Cigarettes are my friend." They love the fact that they could keep a pack in their pocket, and they'd have it accessible, right there. I sort of feel that way with sleep, you know? It's a friend that you can carry with you. It's a source of joy and peace that you can carry at your side. And I think it's there for everybody. It doesn't really require any practice. In order to get good sleep, there's just more stuff that you have to let go of, but nothing you have to acquire. It doesn't require fancy equipment. You can do it in many places. You can learn to sleep in even some very odd positions. (emphasis added)

Alas, for us hoseheads, sleep is no longer something we can "keep close at hand." We cannot "carry sleep at our sides." For many of us, sleeping does require lots of practice. With OSA, sleep is not something that "doesn't require fancy equipment." And we can't sleep in many places. (But many of us do indeed feel that we must indeed learn to sleep in some pretty odd positions in our nightly journey as a hosehead.)

And all of that reminds me of how much of my "joy of sleeping" and my former "love of bedtime" has disappeared since my forced exile into Hosehead Land. *sigh*

[kaiasgram]

Alas, for us hoseheads, sleep is no longer something we can "keep close at hand." We cannot "carry sleep at our sides." For many of us, sleeping does require lots of practice. With OSA, sleep is not something that "doesn't require fancy equipment." And we can't sleep in many places. (But many of us do indeed feel that we must indeed learn to sleep in some pretty odd positions in our nightly journey as a hosehead.)
And all of that reminds me of how much of my "joy of sleeping" and my former "love of bedtime" has disappeared since my forced exile into Hosehead Land. *sigh*

Sniffle sniffle, thanks robysue for saying so well what I've been feeling. I took the luxury of "free" sleep for granted all my life. I miss it so much.

[BlackSpinner]

Alas, for us hoseheads, sleep is no longer something we can "keep close at hand." We cannot "carry sleep at our sides." For many of us, sleeping does require lots of practice. With OSA, sleep is not something that "doesn't require fancy equipment." And we can't sleep in many places. (But many of us do indeed feel that we must indeed learn to sleep in some pretty odd positions in our nightly journey as a hosehead.)

And all of that reminds me of how much of my "joy of sleeping" and my former "love of bedtime" has disappeared since my forced exile into Hosehead Land. *sigh*

The only time I experienced that was the first few weeks on cpap. I was amazed that as soon as my head hit the pillow, I was asleep. Never experienced that in my life. It takes me - and has always taken me at least an hour to begin to fall asleep. It is so annoying to share a bed with other people who fall asleep quickly and get annoyed when you move around. Usually I go to bed, read for a bit, turn off the light and surf in my mind. Skipping that is not beneficial, getting up is disastrous.

[RogerSC]

Really enjoyed the talk, haven't heard Dr. Naiman speak before, and find his thoughts really interesting, and his personal manner draws one in.

And I can understand the loss of sleep innocence very well...however, I still look forward to bedtime, and sleeping. Even with the associated equipment *smile*. I've never been a napper, so maybe that makes my attitude a little different, but I enjoy sleeping as much as before even though the process has changed a bit. Yes, it would be nice to lose the CPAP stuff and still get a good night's sleep, but sleep is still sleep, and I really like it *smile*.

[chunkyfrog]

It seems odd that I can't sleep and breathe at the same time; unassisted.
The equipment I must have available every time I sleep, does not seem natural.
But it is a trade-off I can live with.
I certainly don't miss NEEDING to fall asleep any time, any place.
--and always waking up in pain, feeling like I can never get enough sleep.

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

Napstress, Thanks for posting this great link! I found it very informative and want to read more from Rubin Naiman on the subject of sleep/insomnia.

A section of the transcript that really speaks of something that I am now dealing with was enlightening for me...

John

TS: I think that's helpful. I think that's important. Now, Rubin you did a fabulous job of talking about how we might hit the brakes gradually before we pull into the garage, under the covers, in our bed, but I'm curious: what about that person who wakes up in the middle of the night reliably, [at] 2 a.m., 3 a.m., 4 a.m., and goes, "Oh, S-*-*-T, I can't believe I'm awake again. I'm not going to get a good night's sleep." What should I do? Should I stay in bed? Do I get up and, you know, do some yoga practice? Or, what do I do?

RN: Yes. That's a great question. And that's exactly what they say. It's very common that people wake up and respond to that awakening with an expletive. And one thing we know for sure is waking up and reflexively cursing your awakening will probably not help you get back to sleep.

So a couple of things: One is, more often than not, what wakes us up is not what keeps us awake. What wakes us up is not what keeps us awake. So we might have to wake up to use the restroom, and that's perfectly normal. We would wake up, we would be partially awake, and then we'd go back to bed and go back to sleep. We might wake up because we have some indigestion. We might wake up in response to a hot flash. We might wake up as, actually, a natural phenomenon. There is some evidence from some historical data that people prior to the industrial revolution would routinely awaken every night for an hour or two with something called "night watch." And it was actually a sacred time. So there are lots of reasons people wake up.

Going back the point of awakening, I think it's really critical to begin with forgiving nighttime wakefulness. And this is actually true if we're having trouble falling asleep or waking up. Too often we go to war with that. We go to battle with it. And of course that's kind of a typical posture in our world toward any kind of problem: we fight it. We fight illness, we battle symptoms, and so on. But what's needed at night is just an open-hearted receptiveness. If we awaken, it's really OK. Waking up in the middle of the night is, most of the time, a normal reaction. It's our response, our appraisal, our reaction to the reaction that tends to keep us awake. And that example of hurling an expletive at it is very common. So I think if people can—if they awaken, just be with that, be mindful of it, notice the stillness, maybe notice what's going on in their bodies and in their thoughts. And if they can do that from a place of acceptance and peace, more often than not, I think they'll drift back to sleep.

[lazer]

A wonderful interview about insomnia with Rubin Naiman on by Sounds True:

http://www.soundstrue.com/weeklywisdom/ ... rsion=full

In this conversation, he discusses:
-hyperarousal
-darkness deficiency
-relationship with sleep and insomnia
-amount of time to spend in bed
-how to tell how much sleep we need
-what to do about sleep-maintenance insomnia
-napping
-dreams
-stages of sleep—and of wakefulness

Bookmarked! Thanks

[napstress]

He'll be giving a workshop at Kripalu in MA in January:

http://kripalu.com/program/view/HSD-131 ... ep_retreat