Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

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cake321
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Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by cake321 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:34 am

I had been using an old F&P HC234 for about a year, but wasn't getting any good results from my CPAP therapy, so I ponied up and bought a Resmed S9 Autoset. I was originally prescribed a setting of 11 last year. I set my range last night for 8-20. I always thought the setting they originally told me (11) wasn't right. I know one night of data isn't much, but what does it look like based on one night? I'm trying to learn what all of these things mean. I've attached my results below.

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What is the difference in "Mask Pressure" and "Pressure"? Which one is the setting that the machine was set to?

Also, I think the 95% Pressure is the important number, isn't it?

What the leaks numbers? Are they indicative of a leak?

I believe the 1.0 AHI is good, right? I don't feel all that much better, though.

Thanks a lot for any help. Like I said, I'm still learning how to interpret all of this, but I'd appreciate if anyone could help in the time being.

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Slartybartfast
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by Slartybartfast » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:40 am

cake321 wrote:I had been using an old F&P HC234 for about a year, but wasn't getting any good results from my CPAP therapy, so I ponied up and bought a Resmed S9 Autoset. I was originally prescribed a setting of 11 last year. I set my range last night for 8-20. I always thought the setting they originally told me (11) wasn't right. I know one night of data isn't much, but what does it look like based on one night? I'm trying to learn what all of these things mean. I've attached my results below.


What is the difference in "Mask Pressure" and "Pressure"? Which one is the setting that the machine was set to?

Also, I think the 95% Pressure is the important number, isn't it?

What the leaks numbers? Are they indicative of a leak?

I believe the 1.0 AHI is good, right? I don't feel all that much better, though.

Thanks a lot for any help. Like I said, I'm still learning how to interpret all of this, but I'd appreciate if anyone could help in the time being.
Well, first off, thanks for attaching your complete data. It makes it much easier to see what's what. There's a lot more data there than you really need. Minute ventilation, response rate, etc, aren't really necessary.

Pressure is pressure delivered at the end of the hose. And unless you have a rat's nest stuffed in your mask, then that pressure will also equal the mask pressure. Sleepyhead probably provides the two pressure charts because the pressure at the machine will always be higher than the pressure in the mask because of the resistance to flow the hose provides. But your S9 automatically compensates for that resistance and displays only one value, that being the pressure at the end of the hose. I'd delete one of the charts in the preferences.

The 95% pressure is the highest pressure that you were experiencing 95% of the time. It can be thought of as that pressure that would most likely would provide you with the best chance of treating any obstructive events, if you were setting your machine for constant pressure. But that number is affected by the amount of "hunting" the machine had to do in order to chase down obstructive events. More on that later.

Your leak numbers are low; I wouldn't worry about them. You're always going to have leaks. They come and go. If they last for a long time, then it's time to think about how to fix them (adjusting straps, etc).

1.0 AHI. There are people on this forum who would trade an arm for such a low AHI. Anything below 5 is considered good. 1.0 is very good. Low AHI doesn't automatically translate into feeling good. It just means that your machine is preventing obstructive events effectively. Feeling good doesn't automatically follow from having a low AHI. Sleep is a very complicated subject and having adequate oxygen is only a small chapter in that book.

Looking at your pressure chart, I think you could improve your therapy by setting your low pressure limit higher. Notice what's happening on your pressure chart. Every time the pressure comes down to about 9, an event happens (snores,mostly) that causes the machine to increase pressure. Then the machine slowly tapers the pressure down until another snore sets it off again. So your pressure trace looks like the Alps. Your machine is constantly hunting. If you raise your low pressure limit to 10 or 10.5 those snores will be reduced or eliminated and the pressure spikes won't be as frequent or as high, and your 95% pressure will be reduced. If everything is set right, and if your pressure from your titration study was done correctly, your 95% pressure should fall very close to that lab titration value. For example, like yours, my lab value was also 11.0, and my 95% pressure is always within 0.5 cm of that number, and I never see spikes over 13 cm. What you want to see is the pressure trace spending some time lying down against the lower pressure limit. If the lower pressure limit is consistently below the minimum pressure displayed on your pressure chart, then the low pressure limit is set too low.

From the pressure trace, I think the 11.0 pressure from your titration study is about right. If I were you, I'd set the minimum pressure at 10.5 and the max pressure at 20 and see how you do for one night. What you want to see is those sharp pressure spikes to become fewer and not so tall. BTW, there's no reason to set an upper pressure limit with your machine. Effective therapy is all about setting the lower pressure limit correctly. The machine will take care of the rest.
Last edited by Slartybartfast on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Pugsy
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:02 am

95% numbers (leak or pressure) just means that for 95% of the time you were at OR below that number for the time spent.
People tend to forget the OR BELOW part of the definition. It can be important and it can also just be a number that isn't anything more than "just a number". Looks like part of the initial increase up rather high is related to increased snores. Not a lot of snores but a little increase. This increase in pressure will sometimes sort of skew that 95% number and give the impression that higher pressures are needed but remember the OR BELOW part.

Mask pressure is essentially the same as pressure line and that graph is not needed. It is really duplicate information.
The AHI graph...not needed either since you have the top events graph. Your AHI is low...no need to watch the AHI graph.
You can go to Preferences/ graph tab and turn off those graphs if you want to.

If it were me I think I would probably do what Slartybartfast said...increase the minimum a bit and see what happens.
It's funny but often if the minimum is increased a little then the event precursors that might drive the pressures upward are sometimes better prevented and that lessens the likelihood of the higher pressures or at least the pressures stabilize somewhat.

Here is an example of what I am talking about.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39869&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

And yes, your AHI and leak is to die for good.

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avi123
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by avi123 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:55 am

B/c you set your mode on APAP why the Pressure graph (not the Mask Pressure, b/c this one is bogus) does not show double graphs as usual?

Like this:

Image

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Pugsy
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:59 am

avi123 wrote:B/c you set your mode on APAP why the Pressure graph (not the Mask Pressure, b/c this one is bogus) does not show double graphs as usual?
Because no EPR is used. You get the dual lines because you use EPR. OP in this thread has EPR turned off.
IPAP and EPAP on the Autoset are the same...means no EPR.

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avi123
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by avi123 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:32 am

cake321, I adjust the limits pressures on my S9 Autoset, while in APAP mode, by using a ResScan graph (you can't do it in SH). See below that the pressure graph is only "kissing" the limits. This way you don't waste machine's response time and you limit your injested air.

Image

Another feature in ResScan (and not in SH) is this Stats table which can be set for several periods:


Image

In your situation, b/c you snored at the beginning of the night the S9 responded by raising the pressure at same time to 17 cm. But later you stopped snoring and the S9 reduced the pressure for the rest of the night. If this pattern continues then you'll be obliged to set the pressures at a max of 17 cm and a min of 9 cm. Otherwise you could set the max at .....14 cm.

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see my recent set-up and Statistics:
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see my recent ResScan treatment results:
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Xney
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by Xney » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:11 pm

It looks pretty good. As others have said, 8 is probably too low. You probably want the bottom of the range to be about 10.

Considering the pressure changes, your leaks are really good.

If a minimum of 10 or 11 feels too much to start off, you can use a 5 or 10min ramp.

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cake321
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by cake321 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:08 am

I upped my minimum from 8 to 10. Below are last night's results. AHI actually went down to .5... do you guys think I need to up the minimum some more? to 10.5-11.0 maybe? Does it still look like the old 11.0 setting I was prescribed was correct? Also, I know you said I have no leak problems to worry about, but just for future reference, what would the number need to get to on here for me to be concerned about it?

Thanks!

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Pugsy
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:44 am

I would leave things alone for a week or so and if I continued to see this level of report and I was sleeping well without any apparent problems probably leave it there.
Your report looks like mine. Biggest part of the night around 12 or so with some short term excursions a little higher.
You may find that some nights you don't have those excursions. They may be related to REM sleep or supine sleeping.
Increasing the minimum probably wouldn't hurt anything but I don't see the need either. I just don't see the need to use more when there isn't a need.

Back when I was experimenting with the minimum pressure on APAP I settled in on 10 min as the best. At 9.5 I had a few clusters of events that weren't horrible but more than I wanted to see. Likely in REM since I am much worse in REM sleep.
Sometimes I would see up to 18 cm and above but slept right through it and felt quite decent. My long term average was around 12 and even though some of my 95/90% numbers were up there the overall long term % number was just barely above my overall average number.
Anyway, I experimented up to 13 cm minimum spending a week at each 0.5 increase and the overall AHI never improved above what I was able to achieve at 10 cm minimum.

Now if the pressure changes themselves are disturbing then a more narrow range might be warranted.
If aerophagia is a problem then the lower minimum would help limit that potential problem.

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Xney
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Re: Help me understand results of my first night w/ new machine

Post by Xney » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:46 pm

I'd leave it alone for now - it's looking good!

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