The med. establishment mess: thyroid and "adrenal fatigue"

[AHI15]

Hi:

So I got a lab result with a low total T3 (1) , and a moderately low cortisol (2) at mid-morning, and a moderately low vitamin D (3).

I wouldn't have even had these tested if it weren't for recommendations from people here on this forum. All my Dr. ever tested was TSH, and maybe T4.

My Dr. did nothing more than refer me to his in-group endocrinologist over the low T3. He didn't even recommend anything about the vitD. So I'll be treating that myself...

I've spent 48 hrs reading everything on the web about thyroid and "adrenal fatigue." The situation is a disaster. Let's deal with thyroid first, then adrenal...

There is a book "Stop the Thyroid Madness" which, in addition to others, rants against the fact that since the late 60s, Drs. switched to prescribing synthetic T4 instead of thyroid extract, which includes T3. The biology is simple enough to understand, that most T3 is derived from T4 by metabolic processes outside of the thyroid, and T3 is the actual active hormone which makes things go in cells. So one would think there could be many mechanisms by which this process could falter, and people could wind up still sick if only T4/TSH are treated. Which is of course what Drs. do. They ignore T3, and when patient's T4/TSH are correct and the patient still feels bad, the Drs. shoo them away with antidepressant scripts.

Pathetic situation. On this situation I agree with the book, and much of the internet and alternative med. approaches which have had to resort to importing Thyroid-S and other natural extracts, and which our wonderful government is soon to crack down upon under the guise of "safety", because, we wouldn't want our pharma cos. to loose any sales for Synthroid, even if it doesn't make people better, but only makes lab tests better.

I've also been hearing about "adrenal fatigue" for some time, and it sounds like a tantalizing explanation for cases of chronic fatigue that aren't CFS/ME, narcolepsy, or depression. There's just one problem:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... ke-disease

To make a long story short, for the case of "adrenal fatigue" 1. mainstream medicine says it doesn't exist; 2. alt. med. says it does, and markets tons of supplements to sufferers with nebulous science backing the efficacy of the supplements, and yet 3. there remain serious unanswered and valid scientific questions about whether it is possible for low cortisol to be a cause of chronic fatigue in patients for which traditional tests for Addison's disease do not meet the diagnostic threshold.

In this case I am not satisfied with the explanations of either the establishment, nor the alt. med. community.

At this point, I just about want to vomit all over both the medical establishment and its alternative counterpart.


NOTES:

1. I should have gotten free T3, but I didn't know that detail yet. Result was 58ng/dL, range: 76-181. It's also possible this low reading resulted from being on a ketogenic diet. So I re-ordered the lab tests myself and should find out if this reading is reproducible, plus get a proper free T3 reading in a few days.

2. Cortisol was 4.1mcg/dL, range: 4.0-22. The correct "range" varies wildly depending on who you listen to.

3. Vitamin D was 25ng/mL, range: 30-100.

[lilly747]

I feel for you. I went through the whole thing with thyroid. Mine was removed. I now take natural thyroid and am quite happy with it but had to go to a naturalpath. My regular doctor would not and did not know how to prescribe anything other than the synthetic. Yes it is a can of worms. My regular doctor is fine with what i have done and my readings are great now, on the synthetic they were a mess.

[kaiasgram]

Hi AHI -- My Kaiser doctor tried to order a Free T3 test for me but wasn't able to -- I guess Kaiser won't do them anymore?! They will only do a Total T3. Nevertheless when it came time for an increase, my endocrinologist agreed to prescribe a T3 medication, Cytomel. Now I take both T3 and T4. My endo doc also handled my Vit D deficiency, so maybe yours will too. I recently got tested for Addison's after my cortisol came back low and the ACTH stim test was normal -- however my baseline ACTH and cortisol were rock bottom of normal. Could that still warrant attention? Don't know. I agree with you that it's hard to evaluate or trust either the mainstream medicine or alternative medicine's position on the idea of adrenal fatigue.

All that said, you're making headway with the tests you had and the steps you're taking. I hope it makes a difference in how you feel. I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on "adrenal support" herbs and supplements, but I am trying to eat healthier and cultivate some better stress management practices.

Best wishes!

[kaiasgram]

I feel for you. I went through the whole thing with thyroid. Mine was removed. I now take natural thyroid and am quite happy with it but had to go to a naturalpath. My regular doctor would not and did not know how to prescribe anything other than the synthetic. Yes it is a can of worms. My regular doctor is fine with what i have done and my readings are great now, on the synthetic they were a mess.

lilly, are you taking Armour Thyroid?

[lilly747]

[quote="[/quote]
lilly, are you taking Armour Thyroid?[/quote]

I take Nature-Throid, it is like Armour, just a different brand and a little different in T4/T3 ratios but not much.

[49er]

At this point, I just about want to vomit all over both the medical establishment and its alternative counterpart.

Hi AHI15,

I don't have thyroid problems as far as I know but wanted to respond to this point because I feel the exact same way as the result of having dealt with psych med withdrawal issues.

By the way, the term adrenal fatigue seemed to come up quite a bit when I was dealing with those problems and on AD withdrawal boards. It seems to be a catch all diagnosis for all that ails you.

You might want to check this site for thyroid information if you haven't done so.

http://chriskresser.com/

Of course, this is just my opinion but this guy seems very knowledgeable and even though he is an alternative health professional seems to really look at the evidence instead of having preconceived ideas. Of course, I don't agree with everything he says but no one is perfect obviously.

49er

[Todzo]

Hi:

So I got a lab result with a low total T3 (1) , and a moderately low cortisol (2) at mid-morning, and a moderately low vitamin D (3).

I wouldn't have even had these tested if it weren't for recommendations from people here on this forum. All my Dr. ever tested was TSH, and maybe T4.

My Dr. did nothing more than refer me to his in-group endocrinologist over the low T3. He didn't even recommend anything about the vitD. So I'll be treating that myself...

I've spent 48 hrs reading everything on the web about thyroid and "adrenal fatigue." The situation is a disaster. Let's deal with thyroid first, then adrenal...

There is a book "Stop the Thyroid Madness" which, in addition to others, rants against the fact that since the late 60s, Drs. switched to prescribing synthetic T4 instead of thyroid extract, which includes T3. The biology is simple enough to understand, that most T3 is derived from T4 by metabolic processes outside of the thyroid, and T3 is the actual active hormone which makes things go in cells. So one would think there could be many mechanisms by which this process could falter, and people could wind up still sick if only T4/TSH are treated. Which is of course what Drs. do. They ignore T3, and when patient's T4/TSH are correct and the patient still feels bad, the Drs. shoo them away with antidepressant scripts.

Pathetic situation. On this situation I agree with the book, and much of the internet and alternative med. approaches which have had to resort to importing Thyroid-S and other natural extracts, and which our wonderful government is soon to crack down upon under the guise of "safety", because, we wouldn't want our pharma cos. to loose any sales for Synthroid, even if it doesn't make people better, but only makes lab tests better.

I've also been hearing about "adrenal fatigue" for some time, and it sounds like a tantalizing explanation for cases of chronic fatigue that aren't CFS/ME, narcolepsy, or depression. There's just one problem:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... ke-disease

To make a long story short, for the case of "adrenal fatigue" 1. mainstream medicine says it doesn't exist; 2. alt. med. says it does, and markets tons of supplements to sufferers with nebulous science backing the efficacy of the supplements, and yet 3. there remain serious unanswered and valid scientific questions about whether it is possible for low cortisol to be a cause of chronic fatigue in patients for which traditional tests for Addison's disease do not meet the diagnostic threshold.

In this case I am not satisfied with the explanations of either the establishment, nor the alt. med. community.

At this point, I just about want to vomit all over both the medical establishment and its alternative counterpart.


NOTES:

1. I should have gotten free T3, but I didn't know that detail yet. Result was 58ng/dL, range: 76-181. It's also possible this low reading resulted from being on a ketogenic diet. So I re-ordered the lab tests myself and should find out if this reading is reproducible, plus get a proper free T3 reading in a few days.

2. Cortisol was 4.1mcg/dL, range: 4.0-22. The correct "range" varies wildly depending on who you listen to.

3. Vitamin D was 25ng/mL, range: 30-100.

Love Ya AHI15!

So whatdayasay we take some bacteria DNA and inject it into corn, soy, cotton seed oil, canola oil, and sugar. Whatdayasay we dump tons of pesticide, herbicide, and chemical fertilizer on our crops forever changing the DNA, microbiome, and ecology of the soil and so the content of the crops. Whatdayasay we feed generations of beef, pig, and chicken with those crops and add a great deal of hormones antibacterials (think microbiome) and fungicides to the herds. To top it off, make the media vile with violence, cruelty, and nonsensical sexuality.

I guess I kinda forgot the Medical community overcome by greed, ego, and arrogance. Not getting nothing good out of them.

Government, forget about it, too busy figuring out how to sell the next lies.

These are dark times.

Fly above the trees and think positive.

Start with – how do I help this body – the basics!

Todzo

[AHI15]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

I have seen the CHRIS KRESSER site before, but hadn't read his page on thyroid. I'll have a look.

Still debating whether to have a saliva cortisol test...

And how to pick an endo in the Bay Area...

[kaiasgram]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

I have seen the CHRIS KRESSER site before, but hadn't read his page on thyroid. I'll have a look.

Still debating whether to have a saliva cortisol test...

And how to pick an endo in the Bay Area...

As in SF Bay Area?

[AHI15]

And how to pick an endo in the Bay Area...

As in SF Bay Area?

Yes kaia, the east SF Bay Area. Got any recommendations? You can email me at crobcBOGUS@sbcglobal.net if you don't want to post it here.

Thanks.

[Mundy]

I suffered with Hashimoto thyroid disease for nearly 30 years until I found a doctor who treated it properly. During the 30 years my doctors tested only TSH and said that my thyroid wasn't causing my problems it was fibromyalgia, or chronic fatigue and of course often it was put off as my poor handling of stress, etc. My new treatment keeps my thyroid from cycling between over production and under production of thyroid hormones that is so common in hashimotos. By the way, most people with underactive thyroid do in fact have Hashimotos.

A resouce I found helpful was these books by Dr Arem, from Baylor Univ. Click here to see: http://www.aremwellness.com/dr-arem/the ... -solution/ I was able to check the books out of my local library.

My doctor treats according to the free T3 and free T4 readings along with TSH but most of the emphasis is on the free t3 and t4 and how I feel. Imagine that, a doctor that is concerned about how one actually feels when they treat you for thyroid disease!

[kaiasgram]

And how to pick an endo in the Bay Area...

As in SF Bay Area?

Yes kaia, the east SF Bay Area. Got any recommendations? You can email me at crobcBOGUS@sbcglobal.net if you don't want to post it here.

Thanks.

AHI, I'm up in the Sacramento area and I don't know about endo docs down your way. I do have a cousin in the east bay, though, so I'll email her and ask -- she does travel in medical circles professioally, so it's worth a shot!

[AHI15]

AHI, I'm up in the Sacramento area and I don't know about endo docs down your way. I do have a cousin in the east bay, though, so I'll email her and ask -- she does travel in medical circles professioally, so it's worth a shot!

If you find any leads, let me know. I'll appreciate it!

Thanks again for the support.

[Breathe Jimbo]

You need to educate yourself, find a good endo (not necessarily the one who will do whatever you want), and ask intelligent questions showing that you have done your homework. I find it helps to give my doctors copies of the latest peer-reviewed articles from scholarly journals (see PubMed). Don't just stop at the first article that says what you want to hear, but follow the research thread to the latest, leading-edge on the exact issue facing you. Not easy, but I find it is the best way to get my doctors' attention.

BTW, no one has explained the differences between T3 and T4. Hints: which is active, and what the half-lives are. Do the research and make sure you read the historical survey of the studies comparing treatment with T4 alone and T4/T3 combined. And maybe a CPAP web site is not the best place to raise these issues?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

[kaiasgram]

AHI, as soon as I hear back from my cousin I'll send you a private message. And BTW, this is a perfectly ok forum to post your question(s) in -- most of us are dealing with health issues in addition to sleep apnea and people post all the time about other health issues that are affecting their lives. We learn from each other. It's all good.

p.s., AHI, if you want, remove your email address from your earlier post so you don't get spammed. I'll private message you.