Bondage Anyone? An Approach to Positional Apnea

[MaxDarkside]

I thought that subject line would get your attention.

Recently I have gotten proof that my sleep apnea is directly related to sleeping on my back. When I do, I erupt in events. Resolving them with pressure means intolerably high pressures (think 15-20 cm H2O) that awaken me as well. What to do? OK, some folks recommend tennis balls stitched to a shirt back, or buckwheat pillows, etc. The tennis ball trick is known to be not real comforting, not conducive to undisturbed sleep, nor does it assure you don't sleep on your back, so I'll skip that. I don't have a buckwheat body pillow at the moment. So, what did I try?

I sleep on the left side of the bed (looking from the foot) and I sleep on my tummy preferred, facing left. So if I can prevent myself from rolling over onto my back, I might have a solution... So I tied a soft man's neck tie to the left bed rail and made an easy-to-get-out-of-if-I-have-to slip knot around my wrist, a Bowline Knot with then the tie looped through the Bowline loop (kinda like how you would make a lasso from a regular rope, for the cowboys out there), the length of my bondage tether being about 12-18 inches, so I could roll to my side, but if I start going on my back I get a tug-back from the neck tie.

Now realizing that one night is not a trend, my accelerometer says I never went fully on my back, my sleep disturbances were the same as other nights, that is the tie / not rolling didn't overly disturb me, Sleepyhead said I never erupted in events like I normally do, my AHI went from averaging 2.5 events/hr to 0.25 (two OAs all night, some false centrals I'm not counting).

Now, I certainly do not recommend anyone tie themselves up in bed (unless maybe if it's recreational LOL!) but what I've crafted for myself is safe and I'm curious what a few nights will tell me.

LOL !

[Pugsy]

Someone else a while back used the bondage technique for limiting sleep position. I forget who it was. They took a lot of kidding over it as I am sure you will.
Hey, whatever works is fair game to try.

I don't really care if I go on my back or not from an apnea perspective. I found out in the past that my pressure needs didn't really change that much in relation to sleep position...mostly related to occasional REM stage events on steroids so that is why I didn't try any harder to stay on my side. The reason that I want to now is strictly because of increased pain when on my back and the increased pain when on my back wakes me up and even though only briefly...it does mess with my sleep so I want to limit it as best I can. Since I already have a bad back and the buckwheat pillow offers the support that actually feels good.
I would likely want to use it even if I didn't have OSA. I am all about comfort...doing what works that doesn't cause me discomfort...so I think I will pass on handcuffs right now.

[MaxDarkside]

Hahaha... Ya, I expect some "feedback" on this one

I have a blown L4/L5 disk impinging on my leg nerves, confirmed by MRI. In my case it feels very good to lay on my tummy as it reverses the curve of sitting in a chair most of the day. I suspect there are various good reasons I roll on my back, physiologically speaking. I am defeating those by this. One I noticed is my right shoulder bothered me a bit more during the early morning hours (around 4-5 AM I felt some discomfort) and also my right ear being downward seems to bother me a bit more than normal.

Tradeoffs. Always tradeoffs.

We'll see how it goes for a few nights and maybe I'll keep doing it, or quit to try something else.

[Pugsy]

I think it was Rooster that had pressure needs of 19 cm if supine and only 9 cm when off his back..so he obviously learned to stay off his back. I would have done the same thing. He was a great promoter of the tennis ball thing so I used to argue with him all the time about it. I think he just like to get me going and I know I liked to get him going. I think he found that the Falcon position worked well for him. I can do the Falcon position for a while but it doesn't take long and the old back/pelvis is screaming that it wants to move. I think mainly my problem is that I just can't stay in any one position very long. I am the same way during the day.

I did try a wedge pillow way back in my experimenting days but it was a bed hog and wouldn't stay put anyway. Worked well till it moved that was pretty easily.

You know a good heavy memory foam pillow might stay in place. Bed hog though unless you cut it in half and I just couldn't do it to a $80 pillow with no guarantee of success. Not sure if the cheap WalMart memory foam pillows would have enough weight.

Good luck with your experiments.

[MaxDarkside]

I think it was Rooster that had pressure needs of 19 cm if supine and only 9 cm when off his back

My 95% pressure last night was 10.73 instead of about 14, about a 23% reduction. I was not disturbed by mask leaks either, like I am most every night. Oh, and my day-time feel today is improved, not wonderful, but better. I'm zip-zooming in my work today (when not tippy-typing & reading here )

[Pugsy]

I'm zip-zooming in my work today (when not tippy-typing & reading here )

I hate you.
The aliens came and woke me at 4 AM this morning and wouldn't let me go back to sleep.
I don't know why they did that.
My butt was dragging from 6 AM on.

[MaxDarkside]

I hate you.
The aliens came and woke me at 4 AM this morning and wouldn't let me go back to sleep.

The kind of hate I love
Open a channel in the ether... I will send you life-energy. I have plenty today (Woot!)
(damn aliens !)

[portiemom]

I am trying hard to sleep on my side, as the Falcon tummy position is getting harder for me to stay in for any length of time. I am thinking about getting a cushion to keep between my knees so my pelvis is in a more aligned position. There is one that straps to the leg to make turning on the opposite side easier, has anyone tried anything like it.
As far as staying off the back, I could loan you my mini schnauzer, she will lay on your lower back like a rock and she won't budge even if you try to turn over. My spine is shot so I hope you get some positional relief soon!

[MaxDarkside]

portiemom,

I sleep in something close to the Falcon position, though I sometimes tuck my left arm under my chest, even while "bondaged" last night and sometimes my legs are both straight, sometimes the left one pulled up.

Thanks for the offer of your mini schnauzer. I think my wife and I ought to sleep on a full sized mattress so she can be my mini schnauzer. She's most often way-over-there on our big bed

[sylvie]

So I tied a soft man's neck tie to the left bed rail and made an easy-to-get-out-of-if-I-have-to slip knot around my wrist, a Bowline Knot with then the tie looped through the Bowline loop (kinda like how you would make a lasso from a regular rope, for the cowboys out there), the length of my bondage tether being about 12-18 inches, so I could roll to my side, but if I start going on my back I get a tug-back from the neck tie.
LOL !

I LOVE IT, MAXDARKSIDE!! I love your ingenuity! If you weren't married, I'd want to marry you!!

[raffles97]

I'm kinda warming to the idea since I'm way high if on back and if I can only stay on side evidently minimal events.

However the memory isn't what it used to be and I can just imagine leaping out of bed to head for the bathroom and doing one hell of a flip flop on to the floor. Since bed is rather high it would likely hurt to boot.

[chunkyfrog]

I am shocked, repelled, and oddly stimulated.

[MaxDarkside]

I LOVE IT, MAXDARKSIDE!! I love your ingenuity! If you weren't married, I'd want to marry you!!

LOL ! Thanks, Ms Sylvie Kitten

However the memory isn't what it used to be and I can just imagine leaping out of bed to head for the bathroom and doing one hell of a flip flop on to the floor.

Wham BANG! Owie! The slip knot becomes firm on tension, but quite easily loosened, so as long as I'm not in a panic, it would take me only a second to remove it... intentionally that way for safety (FIRE !! beeep... beeep... ... oh sh*t, I'm tied to my bed !!!), it probably would come off with a hand flop-flutter-jiggle-flip, but ya, best not forget or you'll have a comedic moment at best.

[tiredmama]

What is the Falcon position?

Any tips for sleeping on your stomach with CPAP? That was how I had been falling asleep most nights before I started CPAP but it's not so easy for me with the mask on.

In my initial sleep study, my AHI was much worse on my back. With that knowledge, trying to not sleep on my back allowed me to reduce my daytime fatigue in the months before I got CPAP. (There was a planned nose surgery in there that would have changed my numbers and then recovery time.) I tended to fall asleep on my back if I was reading or watching TV then drifting off and I shift positions a lot, so if I wasn't breathing well later I probably changed.

A very boring post after the bondage mention, eh?

[MaxDarkside]

What is the Falcon position?

Check it out here:
wiki/index.php/Sleep_Positions

Any tips for sleeping on your stomach with CPAP?

I have the same mask as you. I just sleep on my tummy with my head to the left, my mask just off the end of a feather pillow, slightly scrunched up on that end. That's all. I drag my face and mask upward a bit when I put my head down so that the mask is slightly pushed down on my face. That way the nose leaks don't happen, well, not while I'm falling asleep. I also use a homemade mask liner from soft cotton shirt.

A very boring post after the bondage mention, eh?

Nope. A good one