am I alone here with this ?
a little bit of history first
-around 40-50 pounds overweight -big neck -built like a full back 5'8 , 215
-very loud snorer , so much so my wife and I dont sleep together for past 9 years
- around a year ago , I would jolt out of bed gasping for air .This would happen maybe once a month , then it became once every two weeks , then it became once a week and so on .You get the idea . This didnt alarm me until it started to happen with food / vomit in the airway coupled with the awakening jolt of gasping for air -which I assume was part of what was blocking my airways . Both scenerios -simply jolting out of bed gasping for air and jolting out of bed gasping combined with the food/vomit in throat would always happen about an hour into me falling asleep .It would never happen in the middle of the night .
-went for sleep test
-diagnosed with sleep apnea , set up with machine at home for last 6 weeks --pressure set at 10
-didnt really discuss the food/vomit issue with sleep lab tech -I assumed she had it on my report from my regular doctor who sent the referall .
- 6 weeks in - mixed results .Some days I feel well rested , other days I feel like same ol same ol and some days are real stinkers in which I feel horrible cause I'm fighting with the mask all night
-I'm not giving up - I realize there are different masks I can and will try
So , around 2 weeks ago , I wake up gasping for air and a lil bit of vomit in my throat while using the cpap machine - Yoiks !My wife said that she heard me snoring (which by the way hadnt been happening for first 5 weeks)only minutes before this rude awakening occured.
I called the cpap machine provider (they have sleep techs )and informed them of the problem -but didnt mention the vomit -just the jolting awakening with mask on .
She said that I got ''used to'' the pressure and she needs to increase it from 10 to 11 .
so , its now at 11 -can only really tell slight difference .
Last night , bingo - it happened again - jolt /vomit --but this time my wife wasnt home to let me know if I was snoring beforehand .
my basic question here is .Does/ or did anyone else have vomit /food come up on them while you were undiagnosed -then diagnosed ?
I've done some searches and GERT and Apnea can go hand in hand -wont go into detail -but it seems as though my apnea causes my GERT
I've tried not to eat past 7 pm and it seems to help .If I have popcorn at say 800 pm and go to bed at 915 I'm asking for trouble
can anyone relate to this - or give advice either way ?
thanks , butch
arousal /vomit
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Guest
I would also like to ask those of you who have tried to lose weight and have been successful at it if it helped their apnea
I've been nothing but a couch potato for at least the last 10 years compared to my past when I was a fairly active guy (played hockey a few times a week / had gym membership and all that fun stuff)
I'm finally planning on getting off my rear end and I'm hoping to improve my sleep fortunes by doing so ....
I've been nothing but a couch potato for at least the last 10 years compared to my past when I was a fairly active guy (played hockey a few times a week / had gym membership and all that fun stuff)
I'm finally planning on getting off my rear end and I'm hoping to improve my sleep fortunes by doing so ....
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NightHawkeye
- Posts: 2431
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:55 am
- Location: Iowa - The Hawkeye State
Butch, sounds like an unpleasant situation you're experiencing. I can tell you from my own experience that eating late is asking for trouble. While I never experienced the regurgitation you describe, I learned long before I knew I had apnea not to eat late. I never eat anything after 6 pm, usually around 5 pm. I also don't eat much that late in the day because I've learned it causes me grief. Seems like it takes a long time for the stomach to process the food.
I eat a good breakfast and lunch, but not much later in the day. You get used to it. Try it one day at a time. See if it works for you. Might also help with your weight loss.
Regards,
Bill
I eat a good breakfast and lunch, but not much later in the day. You get used to it. Try it one day at a time. See if it works for you. Might also help with your weight loss.
Regards,
Bill
Losing weight won't "cure" OSA-might help though. Start mentioning everything when you see any MD or care provider-it affects the completeness of care you get. It sounds like you are self diagnosing-make sure it is GERD and get it treated. You say you are planning to become more active-what do you need to do before that happens? Do you need medical clearance? Otherwise planning can tke a long time.
CPAP is not going to cure your problem, I suggest you also see a GI specialist. The condition is called GERD or Acid Reflux, with the amount of food regurgitation/vomit your reporting, it would seem your LES (Lower Esophagal Spincter valve) may be damaged. Normally, the LES would normally prevent food and stomach acids from flowing backwards into the esophagaus.
When you snore, you do so on inhale (not exhale like the cartoons show), this creates a vacuum in your esophagal canal, if the LES is damaged it can allow stomach contents to flow backwards since your laying down horizontally.
The exam from a GI specialist is easy, although they may sedate you, but they examine the LES with a endoscope or endoscopy. They may also take a biopsy if you have had Acid Reflux for more than 5yrs as they are finding that it can be the leading cause of stomach cancer.
The treatment is taking an acid inhibitor like PrevAcid (different than the kind you find over the counter), it actually turns off the acid making ability. You stay on this med for 6-12 weeks until the LES is allowed to heal. If you also have an ulcer of which they will also check for, you may have to stay on the acid pump inhibitor for up to a year.
Other things that would help is elevating your bed at the headboard by 8-10", this helps with brain edema and uses gravity to keep the contents in the stomach. I would also avoid any late snacks.
When you snore, you do so on inhale (not exhale like the cartoons show), this creates a vacuum in your esophagal canal, if the LES is damaged it can allow stomach contents to flow backwards since your laying down horizontally.
The exam from a GI specialist is easy, although they may sedate you, but they examine the LES with a endoscope or endoscopy. They may also take a biopsy if you have had Acid Reflux for more than 5yrs as they are finding that it can be the leading cause of stomach cancer.
The treatment is taking an acid inhibitor like PrevAcid (different than the kind you find over the counter), it actually turns off the acid making ability. You stay on this med for 6-12 weeks until the LES is allowed to heal. If you also have an ulcer of which they will also check for, you may have to stay on the acid pump inhibitor for up to a year.
Other things that would help is elevating your bed at the headboard by 8-10", this helps with brain edema and uses gravity to keep the contents in the stomach. I would also avoid any late snacks.
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butch
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NightHawkeye
- Posts: 2431
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:55 am
- Location: Iowa - The Hawkeye State
Butch, some folks have had apnea caused by GERD. The mechanism is apparently vocal chord spasms. No one here, of course, has any idea whether that's the case with you or not. I received the same sort of recommendations when I came here too, but after a couple of months taking GERD meds, my apnea hasn't changed, so I have no great expectations that it will - ever.
Don't quit CPAP just yet , and do what you can about the GERD. I'd guess that your most immediate need is to resolve the regurgitation though. Good luck.
Regards,
Bill
Don't quit CPAP just yet , and do what you can about the GERD. I'd guess that your most immediate need is to resolve the regurgitation though. Good luck.
Regards,
Bill
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Guest
I have vowed to stop eating even earlier in the day than I originally promised myself .
stop at 5.00 and that should give me 4+ hours to be in an upright position to digest my dinner .
I've been eating dinner between 6-7 pm and hitting the sheets at 845 -915 (lay down watch t.v to fall asleep)Obviously not giving myself enough time to properly digest my meal . And , to top it off , I'd sometimes snack around 730 (popcorn , cashews , chips etc...)
I look at that machine in my room and ask myself ''why did you let yourself get this bad o' shape that you need a machine to help you breath '' just not impressed with myself lately....
sidenote -I have not been diagnosed with GERD , nor do I have the symptoms of it during the day time at least . No hearburn , not reguritation during day etc...--just the lil nightime problem
anywhoo
heres an article regarding this
http://adam.about.com/reports/000065_3.htm
Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD). Gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) is a condition caused by acid backing up into the esophagus and is a common cause of heartburn. GERD and sleep apnea often coincide. In one study, almost half of apnea patients had symptoms of GERD, and these symptoms also tend to be worse at night and in the morning and particularly hard to treat. Some experts suggest that the back of up of stomach acid in GERD may produce spasms in the vocal cords (larynx), thereby blocking the flow of air to the lungs and causing apnea. Or, apnea itself may cause pressure changes that trigger GERD. Some evidence, in fact, suggests that treating sleep apnea with continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) may reduce GERD symptoms by nearly 50%. It should be noted, however, that obesity is frequent in both conditions and may be the common factor. More research is needed to clarify the association.
stop at 5.00 and that should give me 4+ hours to be in an upright position to digest my dinner .
I've been eating dinner between 6-7 pm and hitting the sheets at 845 -915 (lay down watch t.v to fall asleep)Obviously not giving myself enough time to properly digest my meal . And , to top it off , I'd sometimes snack around 730 (popcorn , cashews , chips etc...)
I look at that machine in my room and ask myself ''why did you let yourself get this bad o' shape that you need a machine to help you breath '' just not impressed with myself lately....
sidenote -I have not been diagnosed with GERD , nor do I have the symptoms of it during the day time at least . No hearburn , not reguritation during day etc...--just the lil nightime problem
anywhoo
heres an article regarding this
http://adam.about.com/reports/000065_3.htm
Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD). Gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) is a condition caused by acid backing up into the esophagus and is a common cause of heartburn. GERD and sleep apnea often coincide. In one study, almost half of apnea patients had symptoms of GERD, and these symptoms also tend to be worse at night and in the morning and particularly hard to treat. Some experts suggest that the back of up of stomach acid in GERD may produce spasms in the vocal cords (larynx), thereby blocking the flow of air to the lungs and causing apnea. Or, apnea itself may cause pressure changes that trigger GERD. Some evidence, in fact, suggests that treating sleep apnea with continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) may reduce GERD symptoms by nearly 50%. It should be noted, however, that obesity is frequent in both conditions and may be the common factor. More research is needed to clarify the association.
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rested gal
- Posts: 12880
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
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butch
simply baby steps with regards to being more active .I already do alot of walking at work and some moderate lifting (bread delievery driver)krousseau wrote:Losing weight won't "cure" OSA-might help though. Start mentioning everything when you see any MD or care provider-it affects the completeness of care you get. It sounds like you are self diagnosing-make sure it is GERD and get it treated. You say you are planning to become more active-what do you need to do before that happens? Do you need medical clearance? Otherwise planning can tke a long time.
the wife and I bought a cross trainer(elyptical trainer) in novemeber and its only use has been to to dry clothes .
go for walks etc first ....smarten up with diet etc..
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Snoozin' Bluezzz
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:12 pm
- Location: Northeast Illinois
I have GERD and would suffer regurgitation at night. What you report sounds a great deal like what I experienced. It was much worse when I ate things high in fat content and nuts would be killers for me. I don't drink (I love beer but can not tolerate it for a variety of reasons) but on the rare occasions I do it is a killer for reflux. I have heard the same is true for OSA.
IMHO The GERD/OSA relationship is a complex one and I wondered if my GERD was causing my arousals not OSA but I am now confident that this is not so. I have not had a reflux attack in the 50+ days on the xPAP.
It sounds a lot like you may, I repeat may, have GERD as well as your OSA. Changing eating habits and raising the bed could really help.
Your OSA may have little or nothing to do with your conditioning and weight. I recommend that you don't punish yourself like that.
SB
IMHO The GERD/OSA relationship is a complex one and I wondered if my GERD was causing my arousals not OSA but I am now confident that this is not so. I have not had a reflux attack in the 50+ days on the xPAP.
It sounds a lot like you may, I repeat may, have GERD as well as your OSA. Changing eating habits and raising the bed could really help.
Your OSA may have little or nothing to do with your conditioning and weight. I recommend that you don't punish yourself like that.
SB
The reason losing weight doesn't "cure" OSA is that it wasn't the only "cause" in the first place-so don't beat yourself up over the past. If you are worried about the possibility of heart problems from being overweight get medical clearance before you get into strenuous exercise. Meanwhile as someone said just taking "baby steps" will get you started-park the car a little farther away from your destination,
You are right about eating earlier and staying upright for 2-3 hours after meals. Eat 4-5 smaller meals during the day. I second the suggestion to get the head of the bed up by 8-10 inches-that is best done with blocks under the legs of the bed-pillows & wedges don't help. Even hospital type beds don't work for this problem-you need the blocks.
You are right about eating earlier and staying upright for 2-3 hours after meals. Eat 4-5 smaller meals during the day. I second the suggestion to get the head of the bed up by 8-10 inches-that is best done with blocks under the legs of the bed-pillows & wedges don't help. Even hospital type beds don't work for this problem-you need the blocks.
Butch/Guest wrote:
No, I'm not saying you don't have OSA. Like the others mentioned, you can have both OSA and Acid Reflux, they do seem to go hand in hand. Regurgitating food and/or stomach acid is one of the symptoms of GERD. If you have it and you let it go untreated it can become more serious and lead to erosion of the esophagas and premature loss of teeth and stomach cancer. As you'd expect the stomach acid attacks the enamel of the teeth and can even lead to peridontal disease, once you have that there is nothing holding the teeth in the socket and they simply become loose and fall out (on the extreme side of things).
It can be difficult to determine yourself if you have GERD or not. This is why so many go years with the condition before it is diagnosed.
If you see the GI specialist, they will give you a list of things to help with the condition, one is not eating too close to bedtime.I have vowed to stop eating even earlier in the day than I originally promised myself .
stop at 5.00 and that should give me 4+ hours to be in an upright position to digest my dinner .
I've been eating dinner between 6-7 pm and hitting the sheets at 845 -915 (lay down watch t.v to fall asleep)Obviously not giving myself enough time to properly digest my meal . And , to top it off , I'd sometimes snack around 730 (popcorn , cashews , chips etc...)
No, I'm not saying you don't have OSA. Like the others mentioned, you can have both OSA and Acid Reflux, they do seem to go hand in hand. Regurgitating food and/or stomach acid is one of the symptoms of GERD. If you have it and you let it go untreated it can become more serious and lead to erosion of the esophagas and premature loss of teeth and stomach cancer. As you'd expect the stomach acid attacks the enamel of the teeth and can even lead to peridontal disease, once you have that there is nothing holding the teeth in the socket and they simply become loose and fall out (on the extreme side of things).
It can be difficult to determine yourself if you have GERD or not. This is why so many go years with the condition before it is diagnosed.
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butch