Here are my mom's ASV reports

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Artimus60
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Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by Artimus60 » Fri May 25, 2012 1:56 pm

Hello all,

I hope I've managed to include images of my mom's data generated by EncoreBasic. She's been diagnosed with complex sleep apnea and we're having a heck of a time getting any relief. I'd be grateful if anyone has any insight, thoughts, or shared experience that they can offer. I'm a beginner at attempting to give my mom a hand with this - if there is any additional information that I can offer up please don't be shy about letting me know what I've left out. Thanks in advance.

Artimus60

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StillAnotherGuess
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by StillAnotherGuess » Fri May 25, 2012 3:33 pm

Artimus60 wrote: I'd be grateful if anyone has any insight, thoughts, or shared experience that they can offer.
Set the device to Auto (Backup Rate).

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avi123
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by avi123 » Fri May 25, 2012 4:23 pm

I would wait for John Fisher to comment.

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Pugsy
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by Pugsy » Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 pm

avi123 wrote:I would wait for John Fisher to comment.
Ditto...John and SWS and the other people who know about this type machine.
We don't go recommending changing settings when someone is actively under a doctors care (as your mom is).
Someone might offer ideas to bring up with your mom's doctor though.
Right now...just learning about what you are seeing.

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JohnBFisher
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by JohnBFisher » Fri May 25, 2012 5:34 pm

Greetings! I'll see if I can take a stab at helping you to understand the data in the report. I will also pose some questions that you might ask of her doctor. With more complicated sleep issues, such as Complex Sleep Apnea, we tend to recommend that you discuss changes to your therapy with your doctor.

Let me provide an example from my own experience, I noted that my AHI score inched up over the past year. Nothing bad, but I thought that ahead of my next appointment with my neurologist I should run an experiment to see how my numbers change. For a couple weeks, I set my EPAP pressure from 9 to 14. Then a couple weeks I set it at 10 to 15. And then for the next two weeks (I'm still in the middle of it), I set my EPAP pressure form 11 to 16. I can then show him the change to my AHI value with those pressure ranges. It's clearly showing that I do better with an EPAP pressure range of 11 to 16. But I will discuss it with my neurologist. He might want another sleep study to confirm the finding .. and also to observe another behavior I've seen of hypo-ventilation throughout the night. (I see a gradual drop in my O2 saturation until it appears I rouse and then it starts all over again .. over and over). I don't think my numbers warrant any action yet, but I will present what I found for him to review.

So, you get the idea. Even if you change something, be certain to discuss it with her doctor.

Now, let me tackle a few things (three actually) that I noted in the graphs.

First, she has a lot of pressure swings on the IPAP side:

Pressure at Mask:

Image
As you can see in this graph, the blue shaded area - noted as "(1)" in the graphs - shows the range of the IPAP pressure. That broad range indicates her unit was constantly bumping up the pressure to help sustain her respiration. You will note that in her sleep therapy flags graph there are a lot of central apneas and periodic breathing. The unit was responding to that tendency.

I do not advocate changing anything. Rather just be aware that this constant change of pressure may make sleeping with her ASV unit a bit challenging. It may take some time to fully adjust to such a dynamic environment while asleep.

Second, you will note the EPAP value starts pretty low, even though it ratchets up. This seems too low in my opinion.

I would specifically ask her sleep doctor if it might not be better to have the pressure a bit higher .. perhaps 8 or 10cm H2O .. to try to avoid the low side of the EPAP range ... and better allow the unit to better handle the obstructive sleep apneas and hypopneas. She still has a LOT of obstructive apneas. An AHI score of 39 is no where near low enough.

Sleep Therapy:

Image
As you can see, the high number of obstructive sleep apnea (OA) and hypopnea (H) events tends to driver her AHI score very high. I would think her doctor would want to address this.

The third major thought deals with her own breathing. The good news is that even though her breathing is not as predictable as we might like, it is not all that bad.

Patient Triggered Breathing:

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Though 88% seems low, it is not as bad as others here normally have. In fact, based on the BPM graph below, I suspect most of the problems her unit saw was related to central apneas rather than a breath rate that was too low.

It's possible that changing the BPM value to AUTO from 10 would actually decrease her PTB score. That is, the unit would tend to more periodically think that she is not breathing when she should .. based on the past three minutes or so of her breathing. However, it might drop some of the Central Apnea scores by doing that. In essence it would probably be a "wash" in her therapy. PTB would decrease (not good), but CA would decrease (good).

Breaths Per Minute:

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Again, this would be something you might ask her doctor .. why not use AUTO for this setting. However, you will note that with an BPM of 10 there was only one period when it dropped that low. So, it should not be a big deal.

Once again, I would stress that you will want to work in conjunction with her doctor. What's more important for you (and her) right now is a better understanding of the data in the graphs. I hope this reply helps with that.

Note: Edited to correct Pressure graph.

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1tree
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by 1tree » Fri May 25, 2012 6:05 pm

The report seems to indicate that she has only been on the machine for a single day. If that is the case, I would recommend just focusing on getting used to wearing it to sleep.

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JohnBFisher
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by JohnBFisher » Fri May 25, 2012 6:35 pm

1tree wrote:The report seems to indicate that she has only been on the machine for a single day. If that is the case, I would recommend just focusing on getting used to wearing it to sleep.
It's more likely that the OP just pulled one day. He's indicated she has been using her unit for several weeks (at least).

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Pugsy
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by Pugsy » Sat May 26, 2012 7:49 am

JohnBFisher wrote: It's more likely that the OP just pulled one day. He's indicated she has been using her unit for several weeks (at least).
OP just got the card reader and thus this is the first report. Also apparently they (DME) just made some changes to pressure and I think OP said that pressures were lowered. I assume in hopes to get his mom to where she can sleep better and use the machine more. Unsure which pressures were lowered or how much though. I don't think he told me.
So there were some recent changes (just prior to this report above) and I don't know what they were.

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Artimus60
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by Artimus60 » Sat May 26, 2012 10:14 pm

Greetings all,

Thanks for your interest and input. I'll attempt to answer the questions that have been posed and fill in the information blanks where possible. My mom has been using the BiPAP autoSV advanced machine for about 5 weeks. She's wearing it faithfully but her AHI numbers have remained high (over 30 for the most part). She had an appointment with her sleep doctor Wednesday and they made some adjustments to her machine, lowering the EPAP settings from 12-22 to 6-16, and changing PS from 3-10 to 5-10. My mom was kind of getting to the end of her rope and the sleep doctor asked her to stick with it while she tries to get the device adjusted to better suit my mom's circumstances. The first night after adjusting the settings (the stats in the screen capture) her AHI was 39.0, the second night was 27.0, and last night it was 21.0. I don't know if that few night represents a statistically significant data set but it seems like it might be a good think that it's headed in the 'good' direction. John - thank you for your detailed notes. I've been off my pc today but I'm going to read through it a couple times tonight until it 'sticks' - for some reason that stuff is kind of difficult for me to grasp. I think I'm making some progress but I've got a ways to go. I have a feeling that I'm going to have a few beginner's questions to get out of my system.

Mike
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Humidifier: REMstar Heated Humidifier
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JohnBFisher
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Re: Here are my mom's ASV reports

Post by JohnBFisher » Sun May 27, 2012 2:28 pm

Artimus60 wrote:... thank you for your detailed notes. I've been off my pc today but I'm going to read through it a couple times tonight until it 'sticks' - for some reason that stuff is kind of difficult for me to grasp. I think I'm making some progress but I've got a ways to go. I have a feeling that I'm going to have a few beginner's questions to get out of my system. ...
Mike, that's how we all start - as beginners. I would rather you asked your questions than not, since you need to understand it to better help your mother. And that's what this exercise is all about .. trying to make her therapy as successful as possible.

I'm also glad to see that your doctor's mother is working with her to try to improve her therapy. As I've noted with others using an ASV unit, it's important to work with the doctor .. even if you do some tinkering.

By the way, one feature that this unit has is a "ramp" feature, which might also help your mother to get to sleep. For example, it might lower the IPAP pressure during the first 20 minutes or so, gradually increasing. This would allow her to fall asleep before the full therapy pressure starts. It might be something you might want to suggest if your mother continues to struggle.

Also, the fall in the numbers (starting at AHI of 39 and falling each night since) is not unusual with ASV therapy. Though I do not know this is true from any studies, I do know from my experience and that of others on the forum, the ASV unit seems to help "train" our bodies to breathe better during sleep. Thus we seem to see a gradual drop in the AHI scores. Let's hope that trend continues for your mother.

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"I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams." from Zdzisław Beksiński