Looking for the best full face mask. Choices, choices, etc.

[Chuck Connors]

As much as I want my newly purchased ResMed Quattro Mirage to work, my AHI and 95% leakage numbers keep going up. I had to change from the nasal pillow mask to a full faced mask recently due to leakage from my open mouth. Initially I tried to continue with the nasal pillow mask by using a chin/head strap. That help somewhat, but I wasn't getting the full therapeutic effect that I need for restful sleep. I've been trying the Quattro Mirage for the last 4 nights. I don't have all of the data in front of me, but for the last 3 nights, my AHI has been climbing from 6+ to 8+ to last night's reading of 12+. The biggest number that has been increasing is the Clearway. Two nights ago, my 95% leakage was 48. I can barely hold back my enthusiasm to find out what the leakage rate was for last night. By the way, I've read on this site that maybe the pillow is the problem. I tried to eliminate that as an issue by taping a rolled towel. While not the most comfortable thing to rest my head on, I was willing to give it a shot. I'm not sure that I want to try that again. As crazy as it may sound, one of the best night of sleep for me was about 1 week ago when I taped my mouth shut. My AHI was around 1 and my 95% leakage was around 3.5 for that one night. I only got about 5 1/2 hours sleep that night, as I had to get up early, but I felt fantastic all day. Taping my mouth shut is not a long term solution for me, but it was a worthwhile experiment.

I basically have 2 choices, as I see it. Continue trying to work with the Quattro Mirage or purchasing a new mask. The DME provider has a list of 7 full face masks that they carry.

1. Fisher Paykel -431
2. Fisher Paykel - 432
3. Respironics - Comfort Full Jell
4. ResMed - Quattro Mirage (the one I have)
5. ResMed - Quattro FX (no head stabilizer)
6. Respironics - Full Life
7. Respironics - Fit Life

I would be interested in hearing from others who have tried the Quattro Mirage and made it work for them, as well as other comments on the full faced masks that are available in the marketplace. Also, has anyone had good results from speaking with the people in Customer Service at ResMed as it regards product knowledge and being detail orientated? Thanks. -Chuck-

[RandyJ]

Chuck,

I got the leaks under control w/the Mirage Quattro with a mask liner and anti-leak strap from Padacheek. They really were instrumental in making the mask work for me. It's my "go to" full face mask for those nights when I'm too stuffy to use my nasal mask.

Good luck!

[Suzjohnson]

Hi Chuck! I was having the same issues with the M.Q and exchanged it for a Mirage Liberty which has NOT worked out at all. I spent a long time yesterday printing and cutting out fitting templates of all the ones I could find for FFMs and have come to the conclusion that I may have been improperly fitted with the M.Q. as I appear to require a small but had been given a medium. Well, the upshot of all this is that I just made an appointment with my DME to have a lengthy fitting session late this afternoon. I'm beginning to get a bit worried about not having a full face mask as allergy season is rearing it's ugly head and I'm unprepared. Really, I'm not sure you would get much useful information from ResMed but it's worth a try. They can give you dimensions but that doesn't account for all the variables that affect fit. It seems to me that the only way to make an informed decision without spending hundreds of dollars ordering and returning masks is to do the lengthy fitting session, try them all on, with your machine, at your pressures, lying down. This assumes a very cooperative and patient nature from the DME I'm going to re-try the Mirage Quattro in a small as well as the Quattro FX. Would also like to try the Comfort Gel Blue and the ZZZ mask but am open to suggestions. Gosh, I wish you good hunting too Chuck!

Suz

[Chuck Connors]

Thanks for the replies. I will try to get my hands on the mask liner and anti-leak strap from Padacheek ASAP.

All the best,

Chuck

[Stratman]

I use the Mirage Quatro and it works great for me. I used a Resmed Ultra Full Face for about 5 years and it worked fine for me. I like the Quatro a little better just because the nose bridge adjustment is better. About 21 different settings with the Quatro and only 3 settings with the Ultra Full Face. I turn the adjuster until it starts to leak around my eyes, then go back 2 clicks and I am all set. I run CPAP mode at 12cm H2O.

I guess I am one of the "lucky ones". Right out of the box both masks fit me perfectly. I wear the large size and it fits me perfectly. I am 6' 4" and 225 pounds.

Good luck on finding a good mask. I think the mask was the most difficult part of the whole CPAP process.

[macewa]

I'm having mask problems too. Have from Day 1 and so far have tried about 8 masks within a 5 3/4 month time period. Very frustrating. I am currently using a total face mask but with summer coming I know that isn't going to be very comfortable so am trying to find a FFM. I am tentatively scheduled for a sleep study and decided to go have a sit down talk with the RT that would be doing the study. I brought all of my graphs/data with me because I felt doing a study w/o her knowing the problems I've been having and all the air pressures that have been tried, would negate the study. She spent 1 1/2 hours with me and confirmed that my bringing all that stuff for her to see was well worth it. As a result we have moved my study from end of May to first week in July so she can have me as her only patient that night. BUT as we talked about the pain problems I have been having that skew my AHI results she looked at my nose and said, "no wonder, your nose bone structure is not compatible with how the FFM sits on the nose." In a way that makes me feel better because I know it's not just me complaining and I do have a valid reason, but on the other hand, what the heck do I do? Nasal masks do not work as I'm such a huge mouth breather. aughhhh I spent all last night looking at masks online, trying to figure out what might work for me. My next choice will be the Hybrid with pillows since it also covers the mouth. If that doesn't work, I don't know what I will do. Bottom line, I sure do hear you.

[chunkyfrog]

Unless you have an identical twin (triplet, etc.), your face is unique.
Mask fitting is never 'one size fits all', contrary to common manufacturer belief.
Sadly, it is still pretty random.
In the last five months, I have spent a fair amount of money on mask insurance,
and have yet to keep one mask in that time.

[DoriC]

"My AHI was around 1 and my 95% leakage was around 3.5 for that one night. I only got about 5 1/2 hours sleep that night, as I had to get up early, but I felt fantastic all day. Taping my mouth shut is not a long term solution for me, but it was a worthwhile experiment"

Just curious, with such good results why are you not considering taping a long term solution? So many here have been successful with taping. My husband has never taped but has always used the Resmed Ultra Mirage FF Medium with good results but it starts to get leaky around the 5-6month mark. Medicare allows a new one every 3months but we stretch it out longer as a small way of not abusing the system.

[avi123]

In my case I wasted a full year of treatment by using full face masks such as the F&P #431 and #432 and trying about a dozen other FF masks. With FF masks the leak is proportional to the circumference length of the mask's seal and the fit of the mask to the face profile. So the leaks from FF masks ruined my treatment. About three months ago I switched to the Resmed Mirage SoftGel nasal mask with a chinstrap and I can't believe the improvement that I have been achieving. Note that the cushions in these types of nasal mask are self- sealing even without any tightness of the headgear. The cushion fits around the nose and can't dislodge as in pillow type masks.

[greatunclebill]

i believe the answer to masks is size, size, size. mask sizing is different company to company and even mask to mask, just like women's clothes. i tried for 10 years to get the right mask and found it this week in a quattro fx full face medium. my 432 and ultra mirage are both large. pay attention to the on-line fitting guides.

go to the important tips tab on this page to see how to measure for the fx.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... dgear.html

[Chuck Connors]

"My AHI was around 1 and my 95% leakage was around 3.5 for that one night. I only got about 5 1/2 hours sleep that night, as I had to get up early, but I felt fantastic all day. Taping my mouth shut is not a long term solution for me, but it was a worthwhile experiment"

Just curious, with such good results why are you not considering taping a long term solution? So many here have been successful with taping. My husband has never taped but has always used the Resmed Ultra Mirage FF Medium with good results but it starts to get leaky around the 5-6month mark. Medicare allows a new one every 3months but we stretch it out longer as a small way of not abusing the system.

_________________________________________________________________________

DoriC - I was cautioned by my DME provider that taping my mouth can cause my oxygen level to drop from the current 93 to 95, down to around 70. I started reading up on this, including the following from this site. -Chuck-
__________________________________________________________________________


Re: sleeping oxygen saturation
by dsm on Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:40 pm

daddyof7 wrote:
I have been noticing over the past year that my CPAP treatment doesn't seem to work like it did when I finally got used to it. I wake up drowsy as before treatment started, feeling cold like there is little blood circulation, and having headaches more often. My mother is a nurse and loaned me a pulse oxygen meter. Random daily reading are from 92%-96%. I used it last night while sleeping and got a reading of 85%. Is this normal? I do have a routine dr appointment tomorrow but I was interested in knowing what normal sleeping oxygen saturation may be.

Thanks all!

At night a reading of between 90% & up is ok. Below 88% is worry time.

A desaturation is any drop of 4%+ so in fact dropping from 96% to 92% qualifies as a desat.

I'd be pressing your doc for advice. Maybe your machine pressure is too low or perhaps you need a bilevel.

Good luck DSM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_saturation

>>
In medicine, oxygen saturation (SO2), commonly referred to as "sats", measures the percentage of hemoglobin binding sites in the bloodstream occupied by oxygen. At low partial pressures of oxygen, most hemoglobin is deoxygenated. At around 90% (the value varies according to the clinical context) oxygen saturation increases according to an oxygen-hemoglobin dissociation curve and approaches 100% at partial oxygen pressures of >10 kPa. A pulse oximeter relies on the light absorption characteristics of saturated hemoglobin to give an indication of oxygen saturation. An SaO2 (arterial oxygen saturation) value below 90% causes hypoxemia (which can also be caused by anemia). Hypoxemia due to low SaO2 is indicated by cyanosis.
<<


PS here are some sample charts of my own from some years back. NOTE Chart 2 shows lots of desats and also examples of dropping below 88%.
This was caused by wrong (experimental) settings of my machine. It shows that a wrong setup can do more harm than good. Charts 1 & 3 show good data.

1. http://www.internetage.ws/cpapdata/menu_0822.html

2. http://www.internetage.ws/cpapdata/menu_110107.html

3. http://www.internetage.ws/cpapdata/menu_130107.html

[Chuck Connors]

I'm having mask problems too. Have from Day 1 and so far have tried about 8 masks within a 5 3/4 month time period. Very frustrating. I am currently using a total face mask but with summer coming I know that isn't going to be very comfortable so am trying to find a FFM. I am tentatively scheduled for a sleep study and decided to go have a sit down talk with the RT that would be doing the study. I brought all of my graphs/data with me because I felt doing a study w/o her knowing the problems I've been having and all the air pressures that have been tried, would negate the study. She spent 1 1/2 hours with me and confirmed that my bringing all that stuff for her to see was well worth it. As a result we have moved my study from end of May to first week in July so she can have me as her only patient that night. BUT as we talked about the pain problems I have been having that skew my AHI results she looked at my nose and said, "no wonder, your nose bone structure is not compatible with how the FFM sits on the nose." In a way that makes me feel better because I know it's not just me complaining and I do have a valid reason, but on the other hand, what the heck do I do? Nasal masks do not work as I'm such a huge mouth breather. aughhhh I spent all last night looking at masks online, trying to figure out what might work for me. My next choice will be the Hybrid with pillows since it also covers the mouth. If that doesn't work, I don't know what I will do. Bottom line, I sure do hear you.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

macewa - With imaging technology that's available, you would think that the manufacturers of the masks would get smart and apply that technology to producing custom made masks. It would make it easier on us all.

[macewa]

Chuck, my thoughts exactly. They have to know the problems we have. I can't help but wonder how many more people would stick with treatment if they had a decent mask to wear. We need a group that is out there advocating for us!

I'm having mask problems too. Have from Day 1 and so far have tried about 8 masks within a 5 3/4 month time period. Very frustrating. I am currently using a total face mask but with summer coming I know that isn't going to be very comfortable so am trying to find a FFM. I am tentatively scheduled for a sleep study and decided to go have a sit down talk with the RT that would be doing the study. I brought all of my graphs/data with me because I felt doing a study w/o her knowing the problems I've been having and all the air pressures that have been tried, would negate the study. She spent 1 1/2 hours with me and confirmed that my bringing all that stuff for her to see was well worth it. As a result we have moved my study from end of May to first week in July so she can have me as her only patient that night. BUT as we talked about the pain problems I have been having that skew my AHI results she looked at my nose and said, "no wonder, your nose bone structure is not compatible with how the FFM sits on the nose." In a way that makes me feel better because I know it's not just me complaining and I do have a valid reason, but on the other hand, what the heck do I do? Nasal masks do not work as I'm such a huge mouth breather. aughhhh I spent all last night looking at masks online, trying to figure out what might work for me. My next choice will be the Hybrid with pillows since it also covers the mouth. If that doesn't work, I don't know what I will do. Bottom line, I sure do hear you.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

macewa - With imaging technology that's available, you would think that the manufacturers of the masks would get smart and apply that technology to producing custom made masks. It would make it easier on us all.