PAP + Dry Mouth = Gum Problems

[Komodo]

It's starting to feel like the cure for one problem, OSA, is the cause of another, dental problem.

After using a nasal mask for two years, I started getting pain in my two upper front teeth. My dentist said it could be from the mask pushing against the teeth.
I switched over to nasal pillows. That pain stopped.

Saw my dentist again yesterday, complaining of pain in two rear teeth. The teeth were fine, BUT, the pain was coming from my gums. He said the reason for the problem was Dry Mouth.

The ONLY time I have Dry Mouth is at night when I'm using my nasal pillows. I know this because it's bad enough/painful enough to wake me up once or twice a night. My dentist THINKS that's the cause of my problems.

He wants me to try using MI Paste on my gums before I go to sleep.

Does anyone else have Dry Mouth problems, and what do you use for it?
Anyone use MI Paste? What do you think of it?

BTW, my humidity is already set as high as it will go without causing rain out.

[Pugsy]

Dry mouth usually indicates some mouth breathing. It doesn't take a lot of mouth breathing to dry the mouth out. If there is a lot of mouth breathing it will usually show up on the reports as much larger leaks....unwanted because we lose therapy pressure.

If only minor mouth breathing the solution is to stay well hydrated and keep mouth closed. Easier said than done though. Mouth may fall open when we sleep, perhaps especially when we sleep on our back.

Chin strap or tape to keep mouth closed if mouth breathing is creating large leaks that might impact therapy. Some people prefer to use a full face mask but while FFM prevents therapy loss it still doesn't guarantee the end of dry mouth. The humidifier just can't produce enough moisture to thoroughly hydrate the oral cavity when someone does a significant amount of mouth breathing.

I sometime wake with dry mouth and mouth is open. When I go look at my reports I just don't see it on the reports. So it isn't a large amount and it isn't prolonged. So I shrug my shoulders and move on.

Biotene makes some various products to help with dry mouth. Found in Walmart in the mouthwash section.

Unless I see a large prolonged leak on my reports and I have dry mouth at the same time. I don't worry about it because dry mouth is not something that I have all the time.

Bad teeth or gums? Might be able to blame part of it on CPAP therapy but we can just as easily blame it on age and the basic status of our teeth and gums. People not on CPAP therapy have the exact same problems.

[SMenasco]

In my case, taping is, thus far, the only remedy I have found that stops air recirculating and the resultant dry mouth. There are numerous postings on taping and some have stated their beliefs regarding the dangers of it. In my opinion. I do not agree with the viewpoint that mouth taping represents danger to life. Me? I tape without fear, without leaks or dry mouth. Several others on this site support taping as well. Make your own informed decision.

[NateS]

…The ONLY time I have Dry Mouth is at night when I'm using my nasal pillows. I know this because it's bad enough/painful enough to wake me up once or twice a night. My dentist THINKS that's the cause of my problems.…

You don't mention trying a chinstrap. I would start by trying the simplest possible solution - a chinstrap.

It might solve the whole problem of dry mouth with your nasal pillow mask. For many people it does.

Nate

[Komodo]

Dry mouth usually indicates some mouth breathing. It doesn't take a lot of mouth breathing to dry the mouth out. If there is a lot of mouth breathing it will usually show up on the reports as much larger leaks....unwanted because we lose therapy pressure.

If only minor mouth breathing the solution is to stay well hydrated and keep mouth closed. Easier said than done though. Mouth may fall open when we sleep, perhaps especially when we sleep on our back.

Chin strap or tape to keep mouth closed if mouth breathing is creating large leaks that might impact therapy. Some people prefer to use a full face mask but while FFM prevents therapy loss it still doesn't guarantee the end of dry mouth. The humidifier just can't produce enough moisture to thoroughly hydrate the oral cavity when someone does a significant amount of mouth breathing.

I sometime wake with dry mouth and mouth is open. When I go look at my reports I just don't see it on the reports. So it isn't a large amount and it isn't prolonged. So I shrug my shoulders and move on.

Biotene makes some various products to help with dry mouth. Found in Walmart in the mouthwash section.

Unless I see a large prolonged leak on my reports and I have dry mouth at the same time. I don't worry about it because dry mouth is not something that I have all the time.

Bad teeth or gums? Might be able to blame part of it on CPAP therapy but we can just as easily blame it on age and the basic status of our teeth and gums. People not on CPAP therapy have the exact same problems.

Are you saying I'm an old man?????

You brought up a lot of good points, and I agree with all of them, especially "...shrug my shoulders and move on." I do the same!

I can see prolonged leaks that probably match up with the times of my dry mouth, one or two a night, but "shug"

Thanks for the info on Biotene, I'll check them out. They've gotta be cheapper than the MI Paste. (My dentists wants $40 per tube! I found it online for $20 )

[motherall]

I had recently started having dry mouth the past six or seven months. Upping the humidity didn't help and the OraMoist stickons didn't work either since my mouth was too dry for them to dissolve. I had to literally pry my lips apart in the morning. My dentist has always kept a close watch on my gums after oral surgery 15 years ago and I have cleanings very 3 to 4 months. The dryness was not affecting the condition of my gums but I was miserable. Then last week I got my new cpap, the S9 Elite. I had been using the meatloaf, Resmed Pro. The S9 does not dry my mouth at all. I also have the Bella nasal pillows in place of the Swift Ladies LT for her. In any case, after my sleep study last month, the new machine is set for 10 instead of 14, so I don't know if the moister mouth is from the new machine being better over all, the hudmifier working better or and the new mask. I'm thinking it's the new machine. You can Beiotene toothpaste and mouth wash to help moisurize your mouth daily. I stil use the toothpaste as my mouth tends to dry during the day from allergy medications.

[Wulfman...]

It's starting to feel like the cure for one problem, OSA, is the cause of another, dental problem.

After using a nasal mask for two years, I started getting pain in my two upper front teeth. My dentist said it could be from the mask pushing against the teeth.
I switched over to nasal pillows. That pain stopped.

Saw my dentist again yesterday, complaining of pain in two rear teeth. The teeth were fine, BUT, the pain was coming from my gums. He said the reason for the problem was Dry Mouth.

The ONLY time I have Dry Mouth is at night when I'm using my nasal pillows. I know this because it's bad enough/painful enough to wake me up once or twice a night. My dentist THINKS that's the cause of my problems.

He wants me to try using MI Paste on my gums before I go to sleep.

Does anyone else have Dry Mouth problems, and what do you use for it?
Anyone use MI Paste? What do you think of it?

BTW, my humidity is already set as high as it will go without causing rain out.

Try turning your humidity setting WAY DOWN or OFF. Too much humidity can cause nasal congestion and you end up mouth-breathing or leaking air out your mouth.


Den

[Komodo]

SO....
I switched back to my nasal mask last night. The results were NO dry mouth events. That wasn't a surprise, as I never had that problem with a nasal mask before.

I don't understand why I have the problem with the pillows? Both pillow & nasal only supply air through your nose, leaving your mouth free & clear to do whatever it wants to do. It should behave the same way with either mask, no?

Until I figure it out, I'm just going to switch back and forth between the two. Use the nasal until my front teeth hurt, then switch to the pillow until my gums hurt and then back again!

[jenn1270]

I've found that when I use pillows it always feels like my nose is stuffed up even though it isn't and I start breathing through my mouth. I also don't feel like I am "getting enough air" and seem to breath through my mouth. I switched back to nasal mask as well and all is back to normal. I also felt the pain in my front two teeth with the nasal mask at first and switched to a smaller mask and all went away.

I do like the Biotene. It supposedly has some enzymes that make things better. Saliva has natural antibacterial properties and I think the Biotene replaces it.

Good luck.

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

Komodo wrote: Until I figure it out, I'm just going to switch back and forth between the two. Use the nasal until my front teeth hurt, then switch to the pillow until my gums hurt and then back again!

I am kind of confused of why you keep switching back and forth between the Nasal pillows and the Nasal mask. I understand that you are having issues with them both, but maybe stick with just one of the mask types and address your issues with it or search yet again for a mask type that doesn't cause you issues. I would think it would be easier (in the long run) to do that than switching back and forth, forcing your body to re-adjust constantly with masks that you are having known issues with.

For the Nasal mask, try a different one that doesn't hurt you. My mask doesn't put any pressure at all on the upper lip and never has caused me pain, especially with the front teeth. The word around here is that if a mask is causing pain then it is probably is either being used too tight (straps) or the wrong mask for your face (size, design).

For the Nasal pillows, if you like the comfort and small footprint on your face then work on your issue with dry mouth/gum problems and use a Chin strap or use Tape like was suggested above. I have to use a Chin strap with my Nasal mask because when I go into deeper sleep levels my mouth will sometimes open up and I will either lose my XPAP therapy through my mouth, wake-up with a severe dry mouth, or be dealing with both of them.

I could be wrong on this, but I really feel that when a mask is right for you there is no doubt about it! My mask (and Chin strap) are as comfortable to me as my pillow and blankets are (which for just about everyone should induce a feeling of total comfort and the desire to sleep). If my mask did anything other than that, what the pillow and blankets do, I would be looking for a new or different type mask.

John

[Komodo]

Komodo wrote: Until I figure it out, I'm just going to switch back and forth between the two. Use the nasal until my front teeth hurt, then switch to the pillow until my gums hurt and then back again!

I am kind of confused of why you keep switching back and forth between the Nasal pillows and the Nasal mask. I understand that you are having issues with them both, but maybe stick with just one of the mask types and address your issues with it or search yet again for a mask type that doesn't cause you issues. I would think it would be easier (in the long run) to do that than switching back and forth, forcing your body to re-adjust constantly with masks that you are having known issues with.

For the Nasal mask, try a different one that doesn't hurt you. My mask doesn't put any pressure at all on the upper lip and never has caused me pain, especially with the front teeth. The word around here is that if a mask is causing pain then it is probably is either being used too tight (straps) or the wrong mask for your face (size, design).

For the Nasal pillows, if you like the comfort and small footprint on your face then work on your issue with dry mouth/gum problems and use a Chin strap or use Tape like was suggested above. I have to use a Chin strap with my Nasal mask because when I go into deeper sleep levels my mouth will sometimes open up and I will either lose my XPAP therapy through my mouth, wake-up with a severe dry mouth, or be dealing with both of them.

I could be wrong on this, but I really feel that when a mask is right for you there is no doubt about it! My mask (and Chin strap) are as comfortable to me as my pillow and blankets are (which for just about everyone should induce a feeling of total comfort and the desire to sleep). If my mask did anything other than that, what the pillow and blankets do, I would be looking for a new or different type mask.

John

You're giving me the same advice I'd give to someone else! Let me explain why I switched from nasal to pillow in the first place. After trying many different types & styles of masks, I found that the Comfortgel nasal was the "perfect" mask for me, until, I had a solid, one piece, 9 tooth crown put in. When I sleep with my face in the bed pillow, it pushes the mask into my upper lip, causing the pain. The mask fits fine, it's my sleeping positions that are the problem, and that's something I have no control over due to botched spinal surgery. It's a problem I'd have with any nasal mask.
The Swift FX nasal pillow solved that problem, but (for me) comes with it's own issues. Issues that I'm trying to address right now. If I can solve the problem of dry mouth, I'll ONLY be using the FX, and not be switching back & forth.

[Komodo]

I've found that when I use pillows it always feels like my nose is stuffed up even though it isn't and I start breathing through my mouth. I also don't feel like I am "getting enough air" and seem to breath through my mouth. I switched back to nasal mask as well and all is back to normal. I also felt the pain in my front two teeth with the nasal mask at first and switched to a smaller mask and all went away.

I do like the Biotene. It supposedly has some enzymes that make things better. Saliva has natural antibacterial properties and I think the Biotene replaces it.

Good luck.

Sorry for your problems, but it's nice to know there's someone else with the same problems I'm having!

I've also had that feeling of not "getting enough air" and taken a breath or two through my mouth while I was still awake. MAYBE, I'm doing the same while asleep, only for more than just the one or two breaths???? Something for me to think about, thanks!

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

Komodo wrote: You're giving me the same advice I'd give to someone else!

That's good to know! I had hoped that I was learning something in my time here on the forum and would be able to give back some sound advice to make up for all of the help, advice, and support I have received

Komodo wrote: Let me explain why I switched from nasal to pillow in the first place. After trying many different types & styles of masks, I found that the Comfortgel nasal was the "perfect" mask for me, until, I had a solid, one piece, 9 tooth crown put in. When I sleep with my face in the bed pillow, it pushes the mask into my upper lip, causing the pain. The mask fits fine, it's my sleeping positions that are the problem, and that's something I have no control over due to botched spinal surgery. It's a problem I'd have with any nasal mask. The Swift FX nasal pillow solved that problem, but (for me) comes with it's own issues. Issues that I'm trying to address right now. If I can solve the problem of dry mouth, I'll ONLY be using the FX, and not be switching back & forth.

Sorry to hear about your bad spinal surgery and your dental work that is now causing you issues with your XPAP therapy. This therapy can be enough of a challenge by itself without adding other medical issues on top of it! I hope you are somehow able to find a way to work past your sleeping positions problem and not have to continue to switch masks.

John

[NateS]

…The Swift FX nasal pillow solved that problem, but (for me) comes with it's own issues. Issues that I'm trying to address right now. If I can solve the problem of dry mouth, I'll ONLY be using the FX, and not be switching back & forth.

Have you tried switching your Swift FX from the headgear to the $25 Bella Loops?

And adding a chinstrap?

These two changes cut my leak problem by 2/3.

Nate

[unsuspected Severe OSA]

While I've only been on APAP for almost six months, I'm still switching between the pillow and nasal mask. Even had a "mask fitting" for the Comfort Gel, and found the nasal bridge soreness worse than the Mirage FX. Every night seems like an experiment alternating between the PapCap, the Gecko bridge pap, taping (cured the dry mouth breathing after a few weeks), the Pad-a-Check barrel cozy (best discovery to date), the Bella loops (leaks, but I'm going to retry with the cozy), cervical collar, etc...My sleeping position on my back rarely even disturbs the covers, but my skin seems to only tolerate only a few weeks of either mask. I hope this switching is not that unusual. As to the brain adaptation, my AHI continues to drop to nonexistent. This forum has given me so many tips, so I'm not giving up!