Good Numbers but poor sleep

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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woodenbuick
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Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by woodenbuick » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:31 pm

A month into sleeping with a hose I have a question. I have always slept poorly. I wake up a lot.
Last night was one of those nights, looking at the clock every 30 minutes, tossing and turning
and generally sleeping poorly. I have had no issues adapting to the mask and hose and I keep it on all night.
Why, then do I still sleep poorly ? No drugs or alcohol are involved . I have been this way all my life though.
Here is my chart from last night, this is about normal.
Thanks for any insight.

Image

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Pugsy
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:45 pm

You might google "sleep maintenance insomnia" and see if anything pops up that you might improve on to sleep without waking so often. Also google "good sleep hygiene" for any hints.

See if you can find anything that you can isolate as a contributing factor. One of our forum members Robysue also has had some struggles with insomnia. She has a blog here and I bet when she sees your post here that she will offer some ideas. Here is her blog. http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html while part of her issues was related to beginning cpap she has a lot of useful information put together.

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robysue
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by robysue » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:54 pm

woodenbuick,

I bid you a sad welcome to the CPAP&Insomnia Club and hope that your time in the club is short.

As pugsy said, the root of my most recent and extended bout of insomnia was starting CPAP. But I'd dealt with the beast off and on for much of my life. With lots and lots of hard work, I've reined in the CPAP-induced insomnia monster, but not completely licked him. So now I at least feel like I get close to enough sleep most nights. I just wish that I was sleeping from 12:00 or 12:30 to 7:00 instead of 2:30ish to 9:00.

It sounds to me like you've been dealing with poor sleep and sleep maintenance insomnia for a long time. And while the CPAP can take care the arousals caused by the apneas and hypopneas, it's not a panacea that fixes everything about bad sleep.

One thing that caught my eye in your post is this:
woodenbuick wrote:I have always slept poorly. I wake up a lot.
Last night was one of those nights, looking at the clock every 30 minutes, tossing and turning
and generally sleeping poorly.
Looking at the clock is likely a big part of your problem. Rather than soothing you, it's eating at you. Everytime you look at that clock, what's going through your head is something along the lines of "Geez, another 30 minutes without any sleep at all. And morning is just *** hours (or minutes) away and I bet I'll never get to sleep tonight."

The only way out of this problem is to get rid of the clock. Move that clock somewhere where you cannot see it from the bed. Or at least turn it around so you can't see it without consciously moving the clock around.
I have had no issues adapting to the mask and hose and I keep it on all night.
Why, then do I still sleep poorly ? No drugs or alcohol are involved . I have been this way all my life though.
Clock watching is only one of a number of behavior patterns that folks with chronic insomnia often engage in at night that aggravate their insomnia. So my guess is that you are still sleeping poorly because over the years you've inadvertently trained yourself to sleep poorly through a number of habits that encourage poor sleeping. My opinion is based on the fact that you say, "I have been this way all my life."

So I bet you've got a variety of other habits that can loosely be described as "bad sleep hygiene" that add to your problems. And cleaning up some of the sleep hygiene issues may help address your on-going issues with insomnia.

It's well worth finding a copy of Sound Sleep, Sound Mind by Dr. Barry Krakow. Most of this book focuses on cognitive behavior approaches to helping insomniacs both figure out why they have problems sleeping soundly all night and what to do to minimize those problems. (There is also a section poor sleep due to OSA and CPAP treatment, too, though; and Krakow clearly believes that untreated OSA can lead to insomnia problems.) Working my way through this book was useful in bringing the worst of my CPAP-induced insomnia under control as well as helping me figure out why insomnia had been lurking in my bedroom for so many years.

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teknomom
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by teknomom » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:05 pm

By poor sleep do you mean that you wake and can't get back to sleep or that you wake frequently but do sleep in between wakings? I consider myself a "light sleeper" with frequent wakings, but have had problems with sleep maintenance in the past - waking and staying awake. They are two very different problems for me.

One piece of advice - stop looking at the clock! One of the first "sleep hygiene rules"! If you've been this way all your life you may be having fragmented sleep for reasons other than sleep apnea. PLM? Meds other than alcohol? Pain? Bad mattress? And, as others have said, just training yourself to sleep poorly?

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DoriC
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by DoriC » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:38 pm

Do you take any prescribed meds? Sometimes they can interfere with sleep.

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cpaptex
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by cpaptex » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:00 pm

Stress, Meds, Naps, Noise, Light and more all can have an effect on the quality of Sleep.
I'm getting better day by day. Few if any OA Events, mostly CAs and Hyponeas.

I have Interstital Lung Disease

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woodenbuick
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by woodenbuick » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:50 pm

Meds, yes most in he morning but 1 auto immune suppressor about 5 pm every night. I noticed a change as I started taking that as it can keep me awake.
About 2 hours after taking it, I get serious hot flashes and break into a serious sweat. Lots of fun....

I am a light sleeper and have wake up most nights numerous times. Sometimes due to sleep events and sometimes due to a dog related event (You need to wake up for those).
I will move the clock, we have a new bright red one that you can read from the moon. Bedroom six dark, most of the time the bed is comfy if the house is cold enough. I sleep better in
an icebox then I do when its warm. But living in South Texas, we don't get many icebox nights.

I wish I could take a nap sometimes but I am a wide-awake person as of late.

When I wake up, sometimes I can go back to sleep right away, most time not. I don't stress about work 95 % of the time which is good.

I will find the book suggested, as I would like to bring this under control or at least get more then 5 -6 hours of poor sleep.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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Julie
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by Julie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:19 pm

Hi - Any reason you couldn't take the immunosuppressor much earlier in the day? It might make a difference...

ozze_dollar
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by ozze_dollar » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:25 pm

If I have a few drinks I sleep like a log.

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woodenbuick
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by woodenbuick » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:48 pm

I take 3 daily with the last one at 5 or so. I have to spread them out.

I can't (or shouldn't) drink with the meds I take. Besides when I do drink, I sleep worse then I normally do.
We won't even talk about last time I took vocoder for pain. AHI of over 16.

cpaptex
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by cpaptex » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:13 am

If you're talking about Prednisone, then the only way to over come the insomina side effect is to take Ambien or Benedryl. I was on Prednisone for years and it kept me up till 3am nightly. Even if I fell asleep early, I would wake up.

Over a period of time, Benedryl will dry out your nasal passage, Ambien or some other sleeping aid is a better choice. but you need a good 7 hours of sleep time in order not to be groggy when you wake up.
I'm getting better day by day. Few if any OA Events, mostly CAs and Hyponeas.

I have Interstital Lung Disease

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DoriC
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Re: Good Numbers but poor sleep

Post by DoriC » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:58 pm

You do seem to be describing the side effects of Prednisone. (Good catch cpaptex). You really should talk to your Dr about the dosing schedule. When I needed Prednisone 3x/day after a severe asthma attack, I needed 20mg, 3xdaily to start and decreasing gradually over several weeks. It gave me insomnia and hyperactivity among other symptoms, so he changed the dosing to 40mg in the AM and 20mg no later than 3PM. I was eventually able to fall asleep but not fully until I started to take a lower dose only once daily in the AM. Prednisone is a "miracle drug" when you need it but it has really rough side effects.

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