Testing my poverty appliance with a ghetto sleep study

[Paul Van Dyk]

Has anyone ever put their CPAP pressure on 5 for a night, simply to test out if some other type of treatment decreases their AHI?

This is my ghetto way of trying to mimic a sleep study since I don't have health insurance.

For example, let's say I want to know if side-sleeping gets rid of my apneas. Since the pressure I use every night is 16, could I replicate a sleep study by setting my pressure to 5 and sleep on my side. I've already proven that a pressure of 5 doesn't do anything to decrease my apneas on my back. What if I slept on my side and my Encore told me I didn't have any apneas at a pressure of 5. Therefore, I could conclude that I don't need CPAP at all. I just need to sleep on my side.

I'm not saying that side-sleeping will get rid of my apneas. That was just sort of an example.

... but what I'm thinking of doing is buying 2 sports mouthguards (one upper and one lower), gluing them together and using them as a ghetto dental appliance to move my lower jaw forward. Since I don't have health insurance, could I see if it's working by putting my machine's pressure on 5 and seeing what my AHI is?

If I sleep with my new hand-made poverty stricken dental splint, with my CPAP at a pressure of 5 and my Encore tells me I have a low AHI, I can get rid of CPAP all together, right?

Who needs to spend 10,000 on sleep studies and custom dental appliances!??

[mars]

Hi Paul

Have a look at this -

search.php?keywords=self+titration

and this

http://s7.zetaboards.com/Apnea_Board/topic/8487870/1/

and this -

http://www.sleepguide.com/forum/topics/ ... e=activity

cheers

Mars

[jamiswolf]

Hi Paul,
That's a creative use of a cpap machine...I applaud your desire to rid yourself of cpap.

I was started (4 months ago) on an auto machine. Didn't have software but accessing the machine data in the LED, I noted that my pressure from back sleeping averaged close to where you're at. !5-16cm. Yet when I slept on my side, the machine never left 4cm. I am a seriously habitual side-sleeper but had to sleep on my back during sleep study because of wires and chest fixtures.

So I am now using that info and run my Bipap on fairly low easy to manage pressures and stay on my side. Maybe later with weight loss, I may be able to wean myself from cpap.

Hey, I don't know about your home made mouth appliance. Might work. But don't waste any money on the Pure-sleep one-size-fits-all snoring appliance. Made for a tiny mouth and I didn't work for me at all. They have a good return policy though in their favor.

DO read the links from Mars' post above. He's the local expert on positional apnea. Hi Mars!
Cheers,
Jamis

[SleepingUgly]

First of all, Walmart sells an Everlast dual channel (upper & lower teeth) boil and bite mouthguard, so no need to glue two together. You can find it in some Walmarts (not all--I had to go to a couple to find it), in the section that sells boxing/martial arts stuff.

I did try an experiment on 4cm of pressure, the lowest my machine will go to. I had surgery and wanted to see what my pressure needs were post-op. I am not saying this wouldn't work for someone else, but it didn't work for me. According to the S9 Autoset, I have a subclinical AHI on 4cm of pressure; however, my flow limitations are terrible--both the ones the S9 scores as such, and the ones it doesn't. Apparently the S9 misses some of my hypopneas and FLs and doesn't recognize them as such because of my gradually diminishing flow. I suspected this and then had a sleep study, which confirmed that I do NOT have a subclinical AHI on even 9cm of pressure, let alone 4cm. Now could you see trends, such as that you would need less pressure on your side than your back? Probably. But I'm not sure you would know for sure that you don't need any pressure whatsoever on your side. Also, 4cm of pressure is NOT NO pressure.

[Mary Z]

Sleep Strip - Sleep Apnea Syndrome (SAS) At Home Screen Test Kit
by TestCountry


If you get where you want to test for a night without the CPAP this is a home screening test. Amazon has it for $80, but I have seen it online for $60.
Just out of curiosity why are you trying to get off your CPAP beyond the obvious reason "who wouldn't?". Good luck.

[Paul Van Dyk]

Because I don't have a permanent residence right now. I'm just kind of couch surfing and it's a huge pain in the butt!

[drdrew]

I think the key here is that 4-5cm pressure is not "no" pressure, as stated above.

[NightMonkey]

... but what I'm thinking of doing is buying 2 sports mouthguards (one upper and one lower), gluing them together and using them as a ghetto dental appliance to move my lower jaw forward. Since I don't have health insurance, could I see if it's working by putting my machine's pressure on 5 and seeing what my AHI is?

If I sleep with my new hand-made poverty stricken dental splint, with my CPAP at a pressure of 5 and my Encore tells me I have a low AHI, I can get rid of CPAP all together, right?

I'm damn good with my hands (pottery, modelmaking, painting) but am sure that I could not fit and glue a MAD (mandibular advancement device) that would comfortably and effectively treat anyone's sleep apnea.

Even the $2000 MADs that are designed, made, and fitted by very good professionals who have done thousands of them have problems. They have to be finely adjusted and cannot be worn longterm by many people - that is they fail.

Would be better to force exclusive sidesleeping and drop your pressure 1 cm each night and check the data the next morning. You will get to a point where the AHI increases and you should then go back up 1 cm for a minimum pressure setting. Would be best if you do this analysis using the daily details report.

BTW, if you wear a nightshirt your friends might quit kicking you off their sofas.

[saltyk9]

I had a custom upper mouth splint made from my dentist a while back. I also had a lower one made during the day. I abandoned that treatment and those appliances and got with a neuromuscular dentist and he made me a lower 24/7 appliance which I've worn for 9 months.

I had the same thoughts as you...and my current dentist helped me create the device you are talking about. Only instead of the cheap boil and bite guards, I had him glue my top and bottom (both $1,250 appliances) together to mimic a MAD.

I slept with it for a couple of weeks but the pain/tenderness that it caused my teeth was worse than CPAP as it causes no pain at all. I wanted to test my numbers on my CPAP as well to see it's effectiveness, but because it was bulky I couldn't keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth like usual and I couldn't avoid mouth leaks. I tried taping my mouth shut but it made me uncomfortable with the large appliance in there that I was going to choke so I never really got to test it out.

I would be interested to know the results if you try it. You don't have much to lose...

P.S. Both my splints were made out of acrylic and I couldn't find any way to glue them together. Hot glue...super glue...etc. would not hold them in place. Had to have the dentist use his self curing acrylic material to bond them. Also-- if you do use glue make sure it is food grade as you don't want toxic glue in your mouth.