OT: MedPage Today Survey - Debt Ceiling

[Slinky]

Who do you think is most responsible for the stalemate?

Democrats - Less than 10%
Republicans - 50%
President Obama - Less than 15%
All of Them Equally - Less than 30%
None of the Above - Less than 5%

Presented in bar graph form w/indicators in blocks of 10

Interesting. 50% Republicans to blame;
Combine President Obama and the Democrats and still only less than 25%;
All of them equally still more than Democrats combined and considerably less than the Republicans
None of the above weren't even statistically relevant.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/

to the right hand side of the page

[Guest]

Being responsible for the stalemate is a worthy accomplishment in the eyes of many of us. Kudos to the Republicans for holding out, but they shouldn't have caved in the end. We were already in enough debt. Shame on everyone who agreed to more debt.

[Slinky]

Snort. The entire pack of them, Dem, Rep and Ind, are ONLY INTERESTED in either preserving their path to more millions in their own pocket or in attaining millionaire status fastest via their Congressional seat. They could give a rat's rear about the welfare of this country or it would never have come to the disgusting circus that resulted in this sham of a vote.

[goldfinch]

Being responsible for the stalemate is a worthy accomplishment in the eyes of many of us. Kudos to the Republicans for holding out, but they shouldn't have caved in the end. We were already in enough debt. Shame on everyone who agreed to more debt.

And so you would default on our obligations? Because that is what would happen.

I am a retired lobbyist, which I suppose could automatically make people assume certain things about me. The debt is a problem but we had absolutely no choice in increasing the ceiling. The dems and repubs already had passed a budget that required more debt. Even if they had not we will require more debt, for complicated reasons we cannot be pay as you go. For example, there is more money in good times and less need for it. In bad times there is less money and more need for it. We need the flexibility of debt. Plus, infrastructure has to be paid over time or projects would never get done.

What is disturbing to me is the incredible lack of understanding in the American public of our tax system and the need for debt. We would not be in this jam today if Bush hadn't cut taxes and instead saved for the bad times. Now people look at those tax cuts as an entitlement and we are in a jam.

[Vader]

We would not be in this jam today if Bush hadn't cut taxes and instead saved for the bad times.

LOL! Blame it on President Bush!

but seriously, DON'T WORRY, everything is under control. Since President Bush left office,The Three Stooges have taken care of everything.
And remember these famous words from Blinky Pelosi, which have shown very strong LEADERSHIP:
“We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it”

[Guest]

And so you would default on our obligations? Because that is what would happen.

We would indeed default on our obligations, if Obama chose to pay for enough other things before our debt service that there was not enough to service the debt. If debt service is paid first, then we would not default. So blame would be squarely on the executive branch, with Obama the chief of that branch, if there were default.

What is disturbing to me is the incredible lack of understanding in the American public of our tax system and the need for debt.

At least on this we are in violent agreement. Thank you for providing such a clear example of the incredible lack of understanding so many people have of these issues.

[goldfinch]

LOL?

Have you worked on the hill your whole life?

I do not place blame on any single individual. So, I do not make fun of our leaders but instead try to think about what they do that makes sense and what does not make sense. As a lobbyist I looked at my job as being an educator. That is a tough job. I believe we have a system problem and a human nature problem. People refuse to change their minds when evidence show a belief was wrong. It is called the backfire effect and there is a lot of political and scientific research on the issue. Both democrats and republicans suffer from this problem because it is a human problem.

The tax cuts were a political move and did not make economic sense. Even Bush's economists agreed with virtually all economists that tax cuts do not increase revenue.

Now we have a Republican myth that tax cuts bring money in when there is no evidence that they do and in fact the evidence is to the contrary. Now even many Democrats are buying into the myth.

And you do not need to make fun of the health care bill. I read a zillion drafts and I worked hard to try to protect consumers. There were some really great proposals put out during the Bush presidency that would have been simpler and cheaper. But misinformation and big business won. But I still would not throw it away because in this world at this time we cannot do better. Killing it will make things a lot worse, based upon trend data on health care and insurance coverage.

[goldfinch]

And so you would default on our obligations? Because that is what would happen.

We would indeed default on our obligations, if Obama chose to pay for enough other things before our debt service that there was not enough to service the debt. If debt service is paid first, then we would not default. So blame would be squarely on the executive branch, with Obama the chief of that branch, if there were default.

What is disturbing to me is the incredible lack of understanding in the American public of our tax system and the need for debt.

At least on this we are in violent agreement. Thank you for providing such a clear example of the incredible lack of understanding so many people have of these issues.

We would not default on the bonds, the constitution prohibits it. Instead we would default on our obligations to our citizenry. On social security, medicare, military, etc. You are right that these are not contractual but I consider it a default. But I could have spoken about the issue more clearly.

Your insult was not necessary.

[Guest]

Lobbyists are a corrupting influence on legislators. It's a seamy industry. We should ban lobbyists entirely. Congress needs to be responsible to the people, not to special interest groups.

We would not default on the bonds, the constitution prohibits it. Instead we would default on our obligations to our citizenry.

The left never loses an argument; they just redefine the terms.

[goldfinch]

I am sorry that this topic ever came up. I retired because I could not longer stand that misinformation became SOP. Now this discussion which I never should have viewed has spoiled this forum for me. I do not have the time or inclination to go through all the systematic issues our government has and why.

The constitution gives us the right to lobby.

Guest, I apologized for not speaking as clearly as I should. You do not need to make it a political insult. Insults help no-one.

I am done with this forum. I am sure Guest will think that I am running away with my tail between my legs. Instead, I am running away from being insulted which I do not need in my life. I'll find a different forum.

Thanks for the advice on my xPAP.

[Slinky]

Goldfinch, leaving is ridiculous. Just ignore the OT threads and read the threads that pertain to your interests regarding OSA and PAP therapy, etc.

[Slinky]

Hey, Vader!!!! You forgot to add the OTHER Three Stooges:

BushBaby, Cheney and Rummy!!!

Actually, Reaganomics, the trickle down theory, started this latest debacle. The trickle down theory amounted to "pee on the peons"!

[Vader]

I am sorry that this topic ever came up.

When Slinky created this topic, I'm sure she figured there would be disagreement.
I still like Slinky!
Just because we have political disagreement, it shouldn't effect what we think about each other as people. I would advise not reading posts that are clearly marked OT.
There are people who violently disagree with me on religious views,( a far more important topic) but I still gotta love 'em anyway.

I wouldn't leave the forum if I were you.

[Vader]

Hey, Vader!!!! You forgot to add the OTHER Three Stooges:

....see what I mean?

[Slinky]