Apnea events vs SP02(%); does this sound reasonable?

[lars4life]

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[Pugsy]

Hey Slartybartfast,
Not just men. The very first symptom relief I experienced was the complete cessation of the hourly pee breaks.

Took much longer for the other symptoms to reduce but the pee breaks were immediate and yes, that alone was worth using the machine. For the longest time (before cpap) I couldn't figure out how I could have a full bladder so many times during the night when I wasn't drinking much of anything at all before bedtime. Sure didn't have that problem during the daytime.

[Slartybartfast]

That's right, it's not just a guy-thing. Everyone's affected equally, though guys typically have it worse because BPH often decreases the ability to completely void, so guys notice it more.

I mentioned that to my pulmo-doc and he confirmed the ANP effect. Then he related to me an additional benefit of CPAP therapy that was most definitely gender-related. And he went on to explain the physiological reasons for it. John, I'll tell you about that over a beer someday, if your wife/S.O. has not already noticed.

[Pugsy]

Then he related to me an additional benefit of CPAP therapy that was most definitely gender-related. And he went on to explain the physiological reasons for it. John, I'll tell you about that over a beer someday, if your wife/S.O. has not already noticed.

I wish it was that easy for women.

[AMUW]

Not just men. The very first symptom relief I experienced was the complete cessation of the hourly pee breaks.
Took much longer for the other symptoms to reduce but the pee breaks were immediate and yes, that alone was worth using the machine. For the longest time (before cpap) I couldn't figure out how I could have a full bladder so many times during the night when I wasn't drinking much of anything at all before bedtime. Sure didn't have that problem during the daytime.

I don't mean to stray too far from the main subject, but:
In fact, since CPAP treatment I've found increased next day urination frequency and insufficiency to be an interesting correlation to sleep quality the night before. My hourly need goes away after a night with low AHI and good sleep continuity. And the doctor says the bathroom urge most often isn't the reason for awakening.
Notice how Slartybartfast's article above connects to blood flow and its contents, and brain control ... more than to what happens in one's kidney or bladder. What I'd like to understand is whether this chemical signaling can happen as fast as the periodic process in the breath rate (like SPO2 % going down with each apnea) ... or even in a brain signal.

[Slartybartfast]

Well, since it's under autonomic nervous/endocrine control, I'd expect the effect wouldn't be very rapid. There's no physiologic "need" for it to be a rapid response. Probably something that acts over a period of tens of minutes to an hour or more. Over short intervals I would expect the changes to be unnoticeable. But over the course of a night the cumulative effect becomes clear. Whether there is any carryover into the next day is something I've not thought about. I suppose someone who's actually sat in a lecture hall in medical school would be able to answer that.

My wife (an R.N.) told me that when your bladder is full, your blood pressure will spike up. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63270&p=590891&hilit=cuffs#p590739 Perhaps it's the elevated B.P. that provides the actual waking signal, rather than the discomfort of a stretched bladder.

Don't recall whether that article mentions it, but I read elsewhere, and my pulmo-Doc confirmed that low SPO2 is also a stress signal that the heart responds to by excreting ANP into the blood. It's not only elevated blood pressure or high sodium that does that.

Found an article that confirms that low SPO2 causes elevated ANP. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11568308

[jonnybee]

Hey John,

Now that you've taken the cure, not to get too personal or anything, but how are your nighttime urinary habits?

Although I have been diagnosed with BPH, surprisingly I have never been plagued by the nighttime trips to the bathroom. I rarely, both pre and post therapy, have to get up during the night to urinate.

[avi123]

del

[Slartybartfast]

I don't know whether I posted this or not, but it's a good tutorial on interpreting the software:
http://www.osahelp.com/

Scroll down to #6 and below for relevant information to interpreting your data.
Lots of good links to discussions on interpreting your graphs if you continue down to #14.

[M.D.Hosehead]

Good link. Thanks SBF.

[Slartybartfast]

I don't know whether I posted this or not, but it's a good tutorial on interpreting the software:
http://www.osahelp.com/

Scroll down to #6 and below for relevant information to interpreting your data.
Lots of good links to discussions on interpreting your graphs if you continue down to #14.

Thank You Slartybartfast, for this Great Information.

Por nada!

[avi123]

Jonnybee asked:

If I'm not breathing for 4.2 mins out of 7.0, how could I have maintained an SP02(%) min of 94 as recorded by my oximeter? Am I totally screwed up in my thinking?

Going over some of the ResScan graphs from my S9 Autotest machine, I have noticed that many of the Central Apneas and Hypopneas shown in the graphs got to be Minute Ventilated even if the Flow trace does not show it. I can understand it for the Hypopneas but do the Central Apneas allow the machine to ventilate the lungs somewhat? If it is correct, then the danger of oxygen desaturation would be reduced.

[Slartybartfast]

Avi, I've noticed the same thing. It's almost as if the minute variation is charting the CHANGE in ventilation rather than the absolute amount of air in L/minute. Because when you encounter an apnea of some sort the trace flatlines in a horizontal direction. I haven't found much use for that trace yet. Still watching pressure levels vs. events for the most part.

Speaking of which, your pressure is hard up against your upper limit. You might want to raise it and lose some of those obstructive apneas.

[avi123]

Avi, I've noticed the same thing. It's almost as if the minute variation is charting the CHANGE in ventilation rather than the absolute amount of air in L/minute. Because when you encounter an apnea of some sort the trace flatlines in a horizontal direction. I haven't found much use for that trace yet. Still watching pressure levels vs. events for the most part.


Reply:

Hi, my question is if the lungs get ventilated somewhat during those apneas? The Flow chart could show symbolically that the answer is NO, while the Minute Ventilation could show a YES. The access to the lungs does not be pneumatically shut during "closed airway". The graphs symbolically present the manufacturers' Algorithms.

Speaking of which, your pressure is hard up against your upper limit. You might want to raise it and lose some of those obstructive apneas.

Yes, I do it 0.5 cm at a time (per week).