x-DME calls me today

[hose head]

I started cpap in 4/2008. The first DME was picked after second sleep study without me knowing anything about anything. I got basic machine and went on to try and find to a mask that would work. In November 2008 feeling worse than at the beginning I found cpaptalk and started learning about sleep apnea. In December I got a script for S-8 and picked up my new machine. Things started going better. In the Spring of 2009 I hadn't heard from my DME about machine, supplies or anything so I found a new DME. They were great. I had to lean on them to get the masks I wanted, but everything worked and I got the supplies I needed and if I didn't need them they didn't send them. In December of 2009 my S-8 stopped working. I took it to the new DME and they contacted ResMed and I ended up with new S-8. I am happy I visit board every so now and again to see what's going on with new masks and stuff. I don't really post cause, I'm doing fine and people here answer peoples questions way before I even log on.
Anyway today x-DME calls and wants to know if I still have their "loaner". I said I was still using my S-8. They want it back. I remembered the swap in 2009 and tell them about it. They say that my new DME never should have taken it. I said I thought it was mine and paid from insurance. I called insurance and they say that they never got billed and it is my responsibility to return unit. First DME won't take it back because the serial number doesn't match and can't tell me even what it would cost me. They want the dead S-8 back. I am going to Doctor tomorrow and get new script for S-9 with heated hose. Yes my insurance will pay for it because my pressure goes up and down and I have records of some nights being 9 and some nights needing 12. I don't know if the first DME is going to charge me for the price of a new machine when the first one was used, or if they will take this one back, or if they will let it go cheaply and can just buy it. What is a used S-8 going for now days?
The new DME has no problem letting me have the S-9 and is talking to old DME to see if they can help it along.

[sleepycarol]

I started cpap in 4/2008. The first DME was picked after second sleep study without me knowing anything about anything. I got basic machine and went on to try and find to a mask that would work. In November 2008 feeling worse than at the beginning I found cpaptalk and started learning about sleep apnea.
Where is this machine now? I am assuming this is the one they want back? Was it returned?
In December I got a script for S-8 and picked up my new machine. Things started going better. In the Spring of 2009 I hadn't heard from my DME about machine, supplies or anything so I found a new DME. They were great. I had to lean on them to get the masks I wanted, but everything worked and I got the supplies I needed and if I didn't need them they didn't send them. In December of 2009 my S-8 stopped working. I took it to the new DME and they contacted ResMed and I ended up with new S-8. I am happy I visit board every so now and again to see what's going on with new masks and stuff. I don't really post cause, I'm doing fine and people here answer peoples questions way before I even log on.
Anyway today x-DME calls and wants to know if I still have their "loaner". I said I was still using my S-8. They want it back. I remembered the swap in 2009 and tell them about it. They say that my new DME never should have taken it. I said I thought it was mine and paid from insurance. I called insurance and they say that they never got billed and it is my responsibility to return unit. First DME won't take it back because the serial number doesn't match and can't tell me even what it would cost me. They want the dead S-8 back. I am going to Doctor tomorrow and get new script for S-9 with heated hose. Yes my insurance will pay for it because my pressure goes up and down and I have records of some nights being 9 and some nights needing 12. I don't know if the first DME is going to charge me for the price of a new machine when the first one was used, or if they will take this one back, or if they will let it go cheaply and can just buy it. What is a used S-8 going for now days?
The new DME has no problem letting me have the S-9 and is talking to old DME to see if they can help it along.

[Breathe Jimbo]

How bizarre! After such a long period of time, I would think the "loaner" would have been paid in full as a rental. If the total rental payments equal or exceed the purchase price back in 2008, you may (or may not) be protected under a state rent-to-own consumer protection statute. You will need to research that possibility for yourself. Look in the government pages of your local phone book under "consumer protection." Also, it would be a good idea to demand copies of all monthly billings from the DME to insurance for the "loaner" to figure out how much they were paid over the years. Finally, ask the DME for copies of everything that you signed on which they base their claim that it was only a "loaner," or that they were entitled to get it back on demand so many years later.

And, most importantly, have FUN!

[sleepycarol]

Didn't mean to "scream" in my previous post -- can't figure out how to quote and ask questions/respond at the same time.

Anyway it says you had a basic machine from the first DME, correct? Then you went after finding the forum and got a script for an S8? You went to DME 2 to get it since DME 1 hadn't contacted you, etc?

If you still have the basic machine I would return it to the first DME (if that is the one they provided).

If the S8 is working why switch it out for a newer machine? Yea, there will always be newer and better coming out -- but I still don't feel it is fair to expect the DME's to always change the machines out without additonal compensation.

[sleepycarol]

Okay insurance hasn't paid anything on the units?

[Breathe Jimbo]

Try to get all the documentation from your new DME showing that the first machine was defective and returned to ResMed for a new one. It would seem that the appropriate charge for a machine that is defective and does not work is zero.

If you receive a bill from the first DME, call your insurance company and complain, on the theory that they should be billing insurance, not you. And make sure the insurance company gets the documentation showing that the bill is for a defective machine that was returned to ResMed.

If you had the same insurance for both DMEs, tell the insurance company that this is an accounting matter that the insurance company should set straight by making adjustments between the two DMEs. However, don't tell your new DME that you are doing this.

[archangle]

They gave you an S8 machine in 2008, and then after 16 months, they call you and tell you it was a loaner, they never billed the insurance company for the S8, and they don't want to back take the machine that ResMed exchanged for the defective machine they gave you.

Yeah, right, I'll get right on that.

Did you turn in the machine you used from 4/2008 when you got the S8 machine? Did you own the machine you turned in for the S8 machine?

Tell them to submit a bill to the insurance company dated December 2008 through April 2011 for the S8 machine and get back to you once the insurance company pays them their fee. Is the DME contracted with the insurance company?

As far as them not taking back the repaired S8 machine, they are probably an authorized ResMed dealer. If ResMed replaced the unit under warranty, the first DME should be willing to take the S8 back. Complain to ResMed about their authorized dealer.

[hose head]

Wow, I thought I had post a reply to sleepycarol, it got lost somewhere. First machine was a fisher-paykel 600. It is in my closet. Insurance did pay for it on a rent then own plan. They never billed for first S-8 according to insurance. I called them once in January of 2009 because they wanted the card mailed in to check my data. I took card in and never heard from them again. When I tried to get supplies I always talked to a different person and no one knew what was going on and I finally gave up and called new DME. Insurance records online only go back 12 months. I am going to Doctor tomorrow and will pickup new script.
Sleepycarol, why I want a new machine is, I guess I feel if they are going to call me after all this time and ask me about a machine that they just now figured out they didn't have, I'll return S-8. If they want to charge me now for a machine after not calling me for 26 months to check on my therapy, I'll return S-8. I thought the reason that brick and mortar DMEs were able to charge so much was, they provided support. I need an APAP and I don't want any of my insurance money to go to a DME that is so bad that they didn't miss me for 26 months. I thought the insurance company had paid them for the machine and I have been happy with S-8, but if I'm getting a new machine, I want an S-9. I am happy with new DME, and will stay with them as long as they treat me like they have in the past.

[idamtnboy]

Didn't mean to "scream" in my previous post -- can't figure out how to quote and ask questions/respond at the same time.

You insert a pair of {/quote} {quote} with your comment/question between the two. Of course use [ ], not { }. I had to use { } to get it to show properly. Quote begins a new quote section and the /quote ends it.

[sleepycarol]

Thanks for the reply. If insurance paid for the first machine then you maybe out of luck cause most insurance will only pay for a new machine every 5 years, of course yours maybe different. If I understand then it is the s8 that they want back. I am like you that it is their screwup not theirs if they didn't bill for it and you have had it all this time.

Then we wonder why they charge an arm and a leg -- partly due to their mess ups like this.

[hose head]

Carol I have really wonderful insurance and if the machine is "medically needed" they will pay for it. They would have paid for it in Dec. 2008 when I got it. I just assumed they had paid for it. Thanks for your input. I was totally floored when they called me yesterday.