Hubby says I'm NOT snoring; Encore says I am. HUH?

[robysue]

According to Encore I still (mostly) have a snoring problem. VS index usually in double digits; often in the 20--70 range; and occasionally above 100.

But on most of the nights where Encore picks up significant snoring (in the sense that snoring is what's increasing EPAP pressure), hubby usually says I'm not snoring.

What's up with that? Hubby's complaining of my snoring was a MAJOR factor in my having the sleep study done in the first place. And there have been some nights with xPAP where hubby has said he's heard me snoring (and on those nights, hubby and encore tend to agree), but it's not night after night after night. And when hubby hears snoring he makes a point of both jostling me (to get me to stop) and tells me in the morning. So I don't think hubby's suddenly become deaf to my snoring.

Last night is typical: Hubby was awake for a good half hour before I was; maybe more. Hubby says he heard no snoring during this time; Encore has lots of ticks on the VS line during the last half hour before I woke up.

It wouldn't be much of an issue except that in Auto mode, Encore is using these (possibly phantom) snores to increase EPAP, which also often increases IPAP due to the tight range I have. And the fact that the higher EPAP leads to aerophagia problems.

So do I believe hubby or encore? And why?

[jmcsmomma]

I'm not gonna be much help, teehee. BUT, your husband is a living person with ears, and HE says you aren't snoring. the encore is just an inanimate object, lol. Believe the husband, and someone smarter than me will have a better answer.

[jimnsc]

Search for "false snores" on this forum. I found your machine cited for registering them. I personally do not know but I'd bet you could just about satisfy your curiosity here. Mine registers small ones (I guess they're small) in magnitude on the chart but my wife says my snoring has stopped. Maybe they have subsided to the point they aren't repulsive to yours and mine.

[JDS74]

robysue:

My first System One Auto is off for repairs on that exact issue. It started off with small numbers and then went crazy and reported a snoring event (VS) every 90 seconds for about 5 hours. So off for repairs in spite of my DME saying that's what it's supposed to do.

Fortunately, I purchased a second machine with the new, quieter blower and it works great so I'm not without a machine.

[M.D.Hosehead]

I get false snore reports on the prs1. I know it flags my facefarts as snores.

[archangle]

Maybe your husband is sleeping with another woman.

[Janknitz]

I think the PR S1's really over-score VS. I've seen some speculation that any friction against the hose shows up as a VS, but my hose is hung over my head, so it's not scraping on anything. some nights I have pretty high VS scores when nothing is really different in my sleep.

Although loud snoring is what prompted me to get tested since my husband could no longer sleep in our bed, he's pretty deaf (which tells you just how loud my snoring was!), and he's not a reliable witness for smaller snores that may or may not be taking place.

I do catch myself snoring lightly when I first wake up, and lately I've noticed I've been snoring when I fall asleep on my back (I put the mask on while on my back and then roll over to my side to sleep, but sometimes I doze off before I get myself positioned). So now I don't really know if I can trust the VS or not.

Interestingly, my VS has a sort of curved pattern--more at the lower and higher ends of my pressures, less in the middle. What the heck does that mean?

Bottom line is that I think the VS is not a very reliable predictor of anything--I wish PR would fix that.

[Wulfman...]

According to Encore I still (mostly) have a snoring problem. VS index usually in double digits; often in the 20--70 range; and occasionally above 100.

But on most of the nights where Encore picks up significant snoring (in the sense that snoring is what's increasing EPAP pressure), hubby usually says I'm not snoring.

What's up with that? Hubby's complaining of my snoring was a MAJOR factor in my having the sleep study done in the first place. And there have been some nights with xPAP where hubby has said he's heard me snoring (and on those nights, hubby and encore tend to agree), but it's not night after night after night. And when hubby hears snoring he makes a point of both jostling me (to get me to stop) and tells me in the morning. So I don't think hubby's suddenly become deaf to my snoring.

Last night is typical: Hubby was awake for a good half hour before I was; maybe more. Hubby says he heard no snoring during this time; Encore has lots of ticks on the VS line during the last half hour before I woke up.

It wouldn't be much of an issue except that in Auto mode, Encore is using these (possibly phantom) snores to increase EPAP, which also often increases IPAP due to the tight range I have. And the fact that the higher EPAP leads to aerophagia problems.

So do I believe hubby or encore? And why?

This should be easy to fix.......quit using Auto mode. Try finding the fixed EPAP and IPAP settings that work best and don't exacerbate aerophagia.

For all intents and purposes (therapy-wise), "snoring" is NOT a significant issue. However, the algorithms the Auto machines are programmed with use snoring as a trigger to raise pressures. "Snoring" is typically a nasal sound made when inhaling air (assuming the person is not breathing though their mouth). The machines' sensors should only "hear" snoring on the inhale cycle. So, don't let it increase pressures.

In my first year of therapy, I was using a fixed pressure of 10 cm. (couldn't handle the prescribed pressure of 18 cm.) and had very high snoring indexes......but very low AHI (less than 1.0). Over that year, I could see it gradually coming down......but, by doing nasal cleansing and bumping my pressure up to 12 cm., I managed to almost eliminate it. It now averages much less than 1.0......like my AHI......instead of in the double or triple digits. My snoring was one reason I didn't opt for an Auto in the beginning of my therapy. I knew that the algorithms triggered pressure increases on snoring.

What's your humidifier setting? Higher humidity can also cause higher snoring levels.

As far as your last question, I'd be inclined to believe the Encore reports.


Den

[PtownKev]

I've also been bothered by reports of frequent VS but have decided to ignore that piece of information completely. At one point I thought maybe I was mouth breathing and snoring without realizing it, so I got a PapCap. Ironically, when I tried using the cap, my VS incidence went through the roof--it was over 40 one night, with an indication of almost continuous snoring. I stopped using the cap and the score went down but I always have the machine reporting VS at times during the night. A couple of days ago I went to a friend's house and slept in her room to make her listening for snoring. Many people have told me I snore over the years but she was the most helpful in telling me how much I snore and pointing out that I was stopping breathing during the night and then jerking and gasping for air. Anyway, she said that I didn't snore AT ALL during the night. Amazingly, my AHI for that night was a perfect 0.0--no apneas or hyponeas at all--but VS still showed up at 4.6!

Considering I have great leak data with my current mask, my AHI is always under 1.0, observers report that I'm not snoring and, most important, I'm waking up feeling pretty good, I've decided that the VS info on the REMstar is meaningless.

[chunkyfrog]

In my case, the very loud snoring is being treated by the machine.
If it is still registering, perhaps it is at a level that only the machine can detect.
I used to rattle the windows.

[robysue]

As to Auto Mode: I'm using Auto right now in an effort to determine whether the pressures need to be increased (a bit) to help with busting up some clustering of events that started occurring with the pressure set to 7/4 or 7/4.5 as soon as the maples started blooming. My original bi-level titration in November resulted in a prescribed level of 8/6, which still caused tummy problems. The February titration resulted in a reduction of pressure settings to 7/4. But by the middle of March I was starting to see higher AHIs (3.0+ on some nights with two over 4) and some clustering of events. So the PA suggested switching to Auto for a while to see where the pressures would start settling themselves. My 90% levels are running 8/6, but with EPAP, I'm at 4cm > 50% of the time and at 6cm < 20% and the stomach has a very difficult time tolerating 8/6 full time. And the nights where time at 4cm is less than 50% are often nights with much snoring (and few events). So it's the snoring that's driving the EPAP up on those nights, not the apneas.

And snoring as scored by the PR S1 has always been an on/off thing for me: There are some nights where my VSI is below 5. There are some nights where it is above 100. Most nights? There really isn't any such thing as a typical night: I'll have two or three nights with VSI < 10. Then two or three nights with VSI between 20 and 70. And outliers in both directions. There are nights where my AHI is below 1.0 and my VSI > 50. There are nights where my AHI > 3 and my VSI < 5.

[jedimark]

The PRS1 scores two kinds of Vibratory Snore Events..

One of them is a record with no event data, and the other one is a level attached to the Leak Rate.

When you look at the overlays on the waveform display in Encore, you will only see the one without the event data, which there is a lot less of.
When you look at the Sleep Therapy Flags, you see both events combined.

Count the ones on your waveform overlay for that night your "real" figure.

[robysue]

The PRS1 scores two kinds of Vibratory Snore Events..

One of them is a record with no event data, and the other one is a level attached to the Leak Rate.

When you look at the overlays on the waveform display in Encore, you will only see the one without the event data, which there is a lot less of.
When you look at the Sleep Therapy Flags, you see both events combined.

So if I'm looking at Encore Viewer, I get the "inflated" score of both types of snores?

Count the ones on your waveform overlay for that night your "real" figure.

And are these the only ones that increase the EPAP? And go into the VSI in the Time at Pressure tables?

Thanks for this bit of insight.

[SleepingUgly]

No one has ever told me I snore except sleep studies and software.

[jedimark]

robysue: I've only seen Encore Pro (v2.4) I'm not sure whether the Viewer displays more data.

As for whether the single (0x0d) VSNORE events increase pressure, I've just had a quick look, and yes, it certainly appears to be the case.

I'm not sure what to do with the other VSNORE type in my software.. I could split them into their own sleep flag, or drop them all together.. They don't seem to useful.