Arthritis symptoms fixed by CPAP/BIPAP/ASV therapy?

[Mr Bill]

I was 50 when my feet hurt for the first time after a hike. I am 54 now. Last year (2010) my doctor said I am getting arthritis in both my thumb joints. I have noticed that when I get more therapy sleep, my hands and feet hurt less, or not at all. Have any of you noticed this. Is it possible that arthritis is aggravated by lack of sleep?

[desforsleep]

I have suffered with arthritis since I was 25. I was told I had it in every joint of my body. It wasn't so bad at first.. I ignored it. I am 48 and my back. feet but espeically my hips were killing me. I have noticed within a few weeks of therapy I too had less pain. for the last two days now I have had no pain at all! I believe my apap therapy has helped with it as I have not changed any meds and I started the apap in January. I am a believer!!

[Samba]

Which proves that the less tired you feel the more you tolerate various aches & pains.

[Hawthorne]

I have had Rheumatoid Arthritis for 20+ years and have been on cpap for 8+ years. I believe, as Samba said, that having a good, restful night's sleep makes it easier to cope with arthritis pain. That's my experience. Cpap gives me that good, restful night's sleep.

[Sheriff Buford]

I have arthritis in my shoulders and knees, and they feel much better after addressing sleep apnea. Sleep apnea causes problems all over your body and affect your general health. Addressing the apnea cures many ailments.

[robysue]

The first and so far most notable positive change in how I feel since starting xPAP on Sept. 23 was when the low grade, but fairly constant pain in my hands and fingers, feet, elbows, and neck started to disappear sometime in January---in spite of the nasty insomnia I'd been experiencing right from Day 3 of therapy.

Prior to CPAP, I'd wake up most morings with minor joint pain in these joints and the pain become bothersome enough to take ibuprofen for it several times a month---often for two or three days in a row. And pain was often significantly worse when weather was coming through or getting ready to come through. Diagnosis: Mild arthritis with x-rays of the feet and hands at some point that confirmed some arthritis.

Since mid January, this joint pain has disappeared completely. (And we've had plenty of "weather" come through since then, including the current two day old cold rain we have right now.) I still have pain sometimes---but it's the "good sort" of pain from overdoing the exercise a bit (increasing the weights a bit too much too fast, for example) or from the inevitable falls while skiing. I know exactly what's causing this kind of pain and it is NOT tied to the weather we're having. So this kind of pain feels qualitatively very different from arthritis-type pain that I used to have almost every morning.

When talking with my PA about the most recent pressure reduction and the general "how do you feel" question in the context of my continuing battle with insomnia, the PA said that using xPAP had most likely reduced the generalized inflammation level in my body and that explained both the decrease in arthritis-type pain and the reason I no longer needed as much pressure as I was first titrated at (which I had real troubles tolertating)

So, yeah, I think it's quite possible that the physical stress caused by uncontrolled apnea and hypopnea episodes each and every night can lead to or encourage generalized inflammation, which in turn can aggravate arthritis (or maybe just mimic arthritis, among other things). And in turn, once the apneas/hypopneas are largely eliminated by xPAP and the body is no longer being subjected to that apnea-induced physical stress every single night, the body can start recovering itself and the inflammation level can naturally start to drop or (if we're lucky) go away completely.

[Pugsy]

I started cpap in May of 09. Got things tweaked to very acceptable numbers within about 6 weeks or so.
Bad arthritis in pelvis, lower back and cervical spine. No real change in level of pain or fragmented sleep due to pain and tossing and turning. So I can't say that cpap made any difference in my case with my issues. Got a new type of bed last Dec and finally saw marked improvement with pain levels, quality of restorative sleep and finally those daytime nap needs went away.

If I had not been on cpap then I would still be having fragmented sleep from the events and that would most definitely affect how my body tolerates the pain. Pain wears a person down, even if it isn't "extreme" pain. Just having it constantly at any level will drain a person. Sometimes it is a combination of things that bring on the desired results. Maybe the use of cpap "helped" behind the scenes with the arthritis and the final trigger was the new bed. I have no way of knowing but for me with my issues I can't say that cpap was a huge contributor in my reduction of pain but I have no doubt that it did play some part in things.

Only mentioning this for newbies in particular. Those of us with OSA want the use of the machine to "fix" all sorts of stuff. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. We want substantial results and validation for having to go through all this hooked up to the machine work. We don't always get them. Will effective therapy give our bodies a chance to improve? Most definitely but it isn't a magic wand and cure all for all ailments. Effective therapy will enable our bodies to perhaps deal with other things and prevent further damage caused by OSA. Though we can't expect for cpap to automatically fix things. It is when we expect it and don't get it that we feel disappointed and wonder why if so and so had immediate relief or felt like running a marathon why don't we? Must not be working? Why do I put up with this hassle? So for the newbies that read about those that do have noticeable improvements and don't see any... keep at it. Not everyone will see marked improvement. Not everyone will have a reduction in blood pressure. Not everyone will have other aches and pains disappear. Not everyone will have a hallelujah morning. Don't automatically assume that because you don't that the therapy isn't working. Sometimes we have to be content with the small victories. Just because we don't see a marked difference doesn't mean that all this hassle isn't worth it. If nothing else it is preventing worse damage, worse blood pressure problems, worse pains or it is preventing that stroke or heart attack down the road.

So if the software shows good numbers, no leaks etc..sometimes it does take time or investigation into other possible causes for those of us that don't feel the good numbers.

[Captain_Midnight]

Mr. Bill asks...Is it possible that arthritis is aggravated by lack of sleep?

And the answer is yes. OSA causes both local (such as near your respiratory system) and systemic inflammation; and, arthritis is an inflammation-associated condition. Alleviating the chronic-intermittent hypoxic episodes that lead to inflammation reduces (or can reduce) the arthritic symptoms.

Go here for a nice little description of OSA and inflammation. http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/126/1/1.full

.

[Janknitz]

Totally anecdotal here, but I have pretty significant osteoarthritis in my shoulders and had bilateral frozen shoulders after the birth of my second child who is now 10. For years afterward I suffered intense shoulder pain 7 to 10 on a scale of 10, every day, all the time, often worst at night. I had to quit knitting because each stitch brought grinding shoulder pain, my sleep was interrupted, my days were simply painful.

I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary of CPAP, and it's been almost 1 year since I've had any pain in my shoulders, too. 0 on a scale of 10. I did nothing different, except CPAP.

[robysue]

Pain wears a person down, even if it isn't "extreme" pain. Just having it constantly at any level will drain a person.

Boy do I agree with this statement. My pre-CPAP joint pain was very minor (all things considered). Just like my migraines are minor. Just like my TMJ pain is only minor to moderate (if I don't use my nightguard). But dealing with minor pain day after day after day does leave you exhausted even when you *know* that the pain is minor---particularly compared to those who are dealing with severe, chronic pain. All I can say is not having the minor joint pain anymore is wonderful.

Go here for a nice little description of OSA and inflammation. http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/126/1/1.full

Thanks for the link that provides some documentation about what my PA was telling me at my last meeting with her! Not that I thought she was making something up, but still it's nice to see a peer-reviewed article that speaks to this. And explains the one and only positive change I've had since starting on CPAP. [And I'm tickled pink about that change!]

Only mentioning this for newbies in particular. Those of us with OSA want the use of the machine to "fix" all sorts of stuff. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. We want substantial results and validation for having to go through all this hooked up to the machine work. We don't always get them. Will effective therapy give our bodies a chance to improve? Most definitely but it isn't a magic wand and cure all for all ailments. Effective therapy will enable our bodies to perhaps deal with other things and prevent further damage caused by OSA. Though we can't expect for cpap to automatically fix things. It is when we expect it and don't get it that we feel disappointed and wonder why if so and so had immediate relief or felt like running a marathon why don't we? Must not be working? Why do I put up with this hassle? So for the newbies that read about those that do have noticeable improvements and don't see any... keep at it. Not everyone will see marked improvement. Not everyone will have a reduction in blood pressure. Not everyone will have other aches and pains disappear. Not everyone will have a hallelujah morning. Don't automatically assume that because you don't that the therapy isn't working. Sometimes we have to be content with the small victories. Just because we don't see a marked difference doesn't mean that all this hassle isn't worth it. If nothing else it is preventing worse damage, worse blood pressure problems, worse pains or it is preventing that stroke or heart attack down the road.

Lots of truth in this advice to newbies. And through the darkest days of my difficult adjustment, what kept me going was the knowledge that xPAP would, in the long run, prevent or delay many of the more serious consequences of OSA that Pugsy lists from developing. Still, I wish that my sleep doctor had told me something more like the advice Pugsy is giving to newbies at the time I was starting out instead of his overly optimistic, "You feel much better in two weeks," when I was asking about potential adjustment problems because of my long time history of stress-induced insomnia episodes.

[Jersey Girl]

I have osteoarthritis in both of my knees and my left knee is in need of a FULL replacement - but I am on a pain patch that has helped greatly. I also have arthritis in my neck, back and hip. I believe that I am able to cope much better on days when I sleep well. And, my diabetes sugar numbers also improve on days when I get proper rest and feel less pain. Since I feel physically better on cpap (not sluggish and in a fog), I am also able to muster up the energy to go to the gym, which in turn helps with weight loss and better blood glucose numbers. So, I guess it's all connected.

However, cpap does not cure all. I had a lump in my breast removed this year that I don't believe was affected one way or another by cpap. So, I think it is important to realize that while cpap is not a cure all, it is a gateway to a good night's sleep with proper oxygen (no airway collapse) and so we are better able to deal with our ailments.

Regards to all,

Jersey Girl

[wacyone]

I can not see how sleep therapy can "fix" arthritis.I have been on my Bipap Auto SV since August 09.Yes,I do get much better rest without tossing and turning all night but the arthritis is still there.Well not in all the places since I have had bilateral hip replacements and just had a total knee replacement October 2010.I do agree that with our bodies rejuvenating better with good sleep it does help us cope with our arthritis.I have had osteoarthritis for more years than I can count.HaHa I hit a nice plato since this past week,I turned over 5,000 hours on my machine.

PS: Pugsy,do you mind telling what bed has helped you out?I am always looking for things to help my body out.Right now we have a 3" latex topper which greatly helps with comfort.

I love to follow this forum and I find it helps me with the latest info on CPAP.

Have a Good Day!!

Wes

[deerslayer]

this child has had reumatoid about as long as Hawthorne. have had no major flare ups since starting apap. i tend to need 8-9 hrs. a night.
it definitely helps !

[Pugsy]

PS: Pugsy,do you mind telling what bed has helped you out?I am always looking for things to help my body out.Right now we have a 3" latex topper which greatly helps with comfort.

I used a 4 inch memory foam topper for well over a year I guess. It did help some but it got tired and the "some" help wasn't enough for me to want a new one. I bit the bullet and got a Sleep number bed that also has a memory foam topper of sorts inside the the mattress. More of a top of the line model because I always have champagne taste with my beer pocketbook. At the time they were selling the top model for 50% off. Brought it down to the middle of the road model in price.. This was around first of Dec last year.

Immediately my need for daytime naps went away. Poof, gone first night. Instead of hobbling to the pain pill bottle first thing in the mornings now, I sometimes forget to take one. Pain is that much decreased. I do finally have some energy during the day. I have had very good numbers all along with the cpap but I still had the old back, pelvis and neck injuries to deal with. My pain was causing restless and fragmented sleep. Drugs helped a bit but not enough and I really didn't want to take sleeping pills all the time. My normal pain pill which is safe to use if a person has OSA is Ultram. Darn thing wires me up something awful sometimes so I couldn't take it at night.....Sort of damned if I do and damned if I don't. So it was time for a new mattress and we decided to give the Sleep number bed a try.
Best money I have ever spent. Husband prefers a much different level of firmness than I do and his hip and shoulder pain is much decreased because we can set each side independently.

Do I still have pain? Sure, but not nearly as much. I don't toss and turn all night anymore and my cpap treatment is finally showing some productivity. I rest better. I feel better. I finally found the energy to come back here at this forum. Quite honestly, when I took the vacation from the internet and this forum it was because I just didn't feel like dealing with people. I was tired, grouchy and not much fun and it was REALLY depressing to have such wonderful AHI numbers and still feel like crap. With the exception of the elimination of night time bathroom trips I simply was not seeing any improvement anywhere else. I still "needed" naps. I was still tired all the time.

Will a sleep number bed help everyone? Of course not. It did help me though and I am so thankful. I knew in my brain that being 100% compliant with the cpap was at least preventing bad stuff but in my heart I really wanted to at least recapture some of my old energy. I had pretty much tried everything else to lessen the pain and fragmented sleep so it was time to try the bed. My husband noticed right away the change in me. He says my eyes aren't so tired looking and I have a spring in my step. I don't hobble around the house for an hour every morning till everything gets loosened up.

And with that I will climb down off the bed soap box and just add that for those who don't see those "miracles" that sometimes we have to look elsewhere instead of in the cpap machine and the numbers. Those of you that do experience the "miracle" you are very lucky indeed. I have long envied you.

Yesterday I pulled the ceramic tile up from the kitchen floor and tomorrow I am going to lay new tile. I am actually looking forward to the work for a change...