Update on F&P Software...or lack of

[Kahfree]

My doctor told my DME in front of me that she will allow me to have the software. He then called me to say that the Rep from the company said I have to have a prescription for it. So, he was going to ask the doctor on Monday (this week) for the prescription and then they would just send it to me. I get a phone call this morning from the nurse for my doctor who stated that she will not write the prescription because she does not want me to change my pressure.

I explained to the nurse that the doctor ok'ed it and I want to know why she changed her mind. I then get this nurse telling me that "If you would like, we can find you a different doctor to see. I am not sure you would have any luck getting the prescription though, as none of them will give it to you because its the policy of the hospitals/doctors/makers of the machines to not let the patient have access to the software so they cant change the pressure.

I explain again to the nurse that I know how to manually do so and that if I want to, I can. I told her that if this was a bottle of pills, I would have been given the entire bottle with the hope from the doctor that I not take it differently than prescribed. I said that its best for me to track my own progress. She said NO ONE lets you use the software. I then corrected her and told her which companies do and she said she was unaware of that So again she tells me that maybe its best I get a new doctor. Really? Do they not want me because I wont "conform" to them and be their puppet? What is their deal?

The nurse told me that I can take the machine to them and they will print me copies. Again, REALLY? This would be like giving me a scale, telling me to lose weight and when I step on the scale I cant see the progress but would have to drag the scale to the doctors so they can "tell me the results". For goodness sake, this is AIR PRESSURE we are talking about...not needles with meds! And for that matter, Diabetics have more control over insulin injections than an OSA person. Diabetics can (my parents did) change the amount of insulin based on the readings from the blood sugar monitor.

They act as though I have some plague that needs medical science to monitor and keep me in isolation.

This is for F&P. F&P, if you are reading this....make an end user software WITHOUT the almighty ability to change the pressure on the machine. (but a little secret here, we already know how to on the machine) so we can track our OWN progress and alert a doctor when things are not right so they can change the pressure. Stop being Big Brother to OSA people and let us take control of our own health. I don't even want this machine anymore. Its filled with fancy stuff, like the ability to add music but I cant because there is NO software for that either. Its a glorified Clock is what it is. I may just buy my own machine on Cpap.com (I have the prescription) and use the software and not use this machine again and turn it back to the DME.

Kelly

[HoseCrusher]

Kelly, Perhaps you should just "drop by" every morning on your way to work and have them give you a copy of the data. You could barter the cost of gas to stop by for the co pay and call it even. You will have to make some special arrangements on the weekends, but I am sure that nurse would be more than happy to meet you at the office on the weekend so you can have your data...

NOT!!!

What a crock.

Talk to the doctor and point out that the nurse is stone walling you.

[Pugsy]

Oh boy, something tells me Kelly is really, really mad this time.

If your pocket book can stand it, buy what you want from cpap.com. They will give you a form to file insurance. Send it in. The worst that would happen would be a denial, they might allow it and count it to your deductible.

You will be much happier with all this if you have exactly what you want.

[Kahfree]

Kelly, Perhaps you should just "drop by" every morning on your way to work and have them give you a copy of the data. You could barter the cost of gas to stop by for the co pay and call it even. You will have to make some special arrangements on the weekends, but I am sure that nurse would be more than happy to meet you at the office on the weekend so you can have your data...

NOT!!!

What a crock.

Talk to the doctor and point out that the nurse is stone walling you.

That sounds like a great plan, except my doctor is about a 40 minute drive away on a semi bad day, an hour on a really bad day and about 20 minutes on a good day. (like at midnight) lol.

Oh boy, something tells me Kelly is really, really mad this time.

If your pocket book can stand it, buy what you want from cpap.com. They will give you a form to file insurance. Send it in. The worst that would happen would be a denial, they might allow it and count it to your deductible.

You will be much happier with all this if you have exactly what you want.

I am really considering it and even just went to cpap.com to price it out. It says on that site that it comes with the software. How can that be? Unless its a misprint. I can get the machine and the software on CPAP.COM but not from my doctor or DME? Something is not right here...

[rested gal]

I am really considering it and even just went to cpap.com to price it out. It says on that site that it comes with the software. How can that be? Unless its a misprint. I can get the machine and the software on CPAP.COM but not from my doctor or DME? Something is not right here...

Kelly, I went to the cpap.com page for the Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo machine:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... chine.html

I don't see any place where it says the software comes with the machine. The Product Features wording is probably what made it sound like that, but the way I read it.... "includes" "Advanced Software Reporting" doesn't mean "includes" the "Advanced Software" itself. Just means that one of the features of the machine is the ability to record data that can be downloaded by the software to generate reports... IF a person has the software.

Product Features

All ICON machines come with a built-in heated humidifier and ThermoSmart Technology. The ICON Premo elevates the standard CPAP platform and includes premium features like:

Efficacy Reporting (AHI and Leak)
Auto Altitude Adjustment
Leak Compensation
Advanced Software Reporting

Unfortunately, the software isn't for sale at cpap.com anyway.
On a page describing the software used by F&P machines with smart sticks:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... stick.html

Performance Maximizer Software for SleepStyle CPAP Machines with SmartStick
Manufactured by Fisher & Paykel.

This product has not been reviewed. Be the first to review this product.
This product no longer available and this information is for reference only.

[Mr Bill]

Just a silly question; what does DME stand for? Is that the therapist? Or, does it refer to the equipment? I Googled DME and found 'Durable Medical Equipment'? My guy is a Respiratory Therapist (RRT) its early in the relationship and they were really great the first month. Now I get the idea they would like to see less of me. So, I bought the Encore View 2 software. Eventually, I will probably absorb enough trivia to know how to set the clock on my unit (21 minutes slow) and perhaps other things.

DOH, searching for glossary did no good but I found it appended to the CPAP Definitions above. Never mind the question.

Get the software, I bought it elsewhere and have since learned that CPAP had the best price. Its very reassuring to be able to correlate how you feel each morning with what the machine reported for you the night before.

[rested gal]

Just a silly question; what does DME stand for? Is that the therapist? Or, does it refer to the equipment? I Googled DME and found 'Durable Medical Equipment'?

It isn't a silly question at all.

DOH, searching for glossary did no good but I found it appended to the CPAP Definitions above. Never mind the question.

Glad you found it. Good searchin', Bill.

I've always thought there should be a simple button up at the top of the cpaptalk page with the word DEFINITIONS on it. But alas, that's never happened. You have to jump through hoops. Oh well.

I'm still gonna post a link with a long-ago answer, anyway.
viewtopic.php?p=125672#p125672

[Megan]

Guys, i feel very strongly about this and want to say a heap more, but with the earthquake here and the death toll rising by the day, my focus is on other things.
These F&P machines are made in New Zealand and I intend to campaign to get the infosmart software available for purchase. I am lucky enough to have the software so know the importance of being able to track your progress. I have been renting the F&P icon for the past 3 months and purchased a new machine three weeks ago. I can confirm that the machine does come with software, but this is for loading music onto the smartstick.
The machine also comes with a ridiculous "hard" case that takes forever to pack the machine and no room for your mask.
I phoned the company directly and they were more than happy to replace my case for a soft one (that my mask fits in to as well).
Please be assured I intent to visit the F&P office personally and take all your concerns and comments with me, so keep posting!!!

Once things have settled down here, I will be on a mission with this.

Megan
NZ

[DocWeezy]

Make an appointment to see the doctor, then tell him/her what the nurse is telling you. Ask point blank if it would be better if you got a new doctor, because you want to work with a doctor who respects the fact that you are an intelligent, informed, and proactive patient. Make it clear that you will not be kept in the dark and that YOU are in control of YOUR therapy.

If the doctor is supportive, get everything in writing right then--prescriptions, permissions for software, whatever you need. Otherwise, get a new doctor because a doctor who wants to keep you ignorant is not going to provide good care and does not have your best interests at heart.

Weezy

[Kahfree]

Kelly, I went to the cpap.com page for the Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo machine:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... chine.html

I don't see any place where it says the software comes with the machine. The Product Features wording is probably what made it sound like that, but the way I read it.... "includes" "Advanced Software Reporting" doesn't mean "includes" the "Advanced Software" itself. Just means that one of the features of the machine is the ability to record data that can be downloaded by the software to generate reports... IF a person has the software.

Product Features

All ICON machines come with a built-in heated humidifier and ThermoSmart Technology. The ICON Premo elevates the standard CPAP platform and includes premium features like:

Efficacy Reporting (AHI and Leak)
Auto Altitude Adjustment
Leak Compensation
Advanced Software Reporting

In the features section at the bottom, it says " InfoSmart and SmartStick

"Track your therapy effectiveness with InfoSmart and the SmartStick. The software offers detailed reporting including data regarding compliance, AHI, leak and pressure readings. SmartStick Technology is a unique memory card that connects directly to a USB drive, without a separate card reader. The SmartStick is used to easily transfer data from your CPAP to Fisher and Paykel InfoSmart Software."

But your right, it does not say it comes with it, so I misunderstood thinking when it says TRACK YOUR THERAPY, meaning I can with included software. Perhaps CPAP.com might want to say, "Your Doctor can Track your therapy..etc".
It does come with the software to play/ load music, of which I was told I can't have nor do they (DME) offer this software.
Here is where to find that information.

Click on CUSTOMIZE & buy, then at the top of the page it says:

"ICON Premo CPAP Machine with Built In Heated Humidifier and ThermoSmart
This product comes with:

* ICON Premo CPAP Machine
* Standard Tubing
* Water Chamber
* 2 Disposable Filters
* Manuals
* Carrying Case
* Power Cord
* SmartStick Card
* SmartStick Studio Software

At the very least, I should have had the Studio Software to add my own music to.

[Kahfree]

Guys, i feel very strongly about this and want to say a heap more, but with the earthquake here and the death toll rising by the day, my focus is on other things.
These F&P machines are made in New Zealand and I intend to campaign to get the infosmart software available for purchase. I am lucky enough to have the software so know the importance of being able to track your progress. I have been renting the F&P icon for the past 3 months and purchased a new machine three weeks ago. I can confirm that the machine does come with software, but this is for loading music onto the smartstick.
The machine also comes with a ridiculous "hard" case that takes forever to pack the machine and no room for your mask.
I phoned the company directly and they were more than happy to replace my case for a soft one (that my mask fits in to as well).
Please be assured I intent to visit the F&P office personally and take all your concerns and comments with me, so keep posting!!!

Once things have settled down here, I will be on a mission with this.

Megan
NZ

I hope your well in NZ and that your family is not affected by this tragedy, although a person does not have to be your blood to be your family and the citizens of NZ are still your family. I have a close friend here and his family is in NZ, as he was born and raised there. He said his parents, sister, etc are well. I was happy to hear that.

It will be interesting to hear of the information you find when the time is right to check out the company and what they have to say on it.

Kelly

[monarch22]

I am in the same situation as you. I have the F&P Sleepstyle 254 which is data capable too. However, without being able to purchase the software, that doesn't do me much good. My doctor wouldn't even write the prescription for auto, so when I bought the machine, the DME had to set it to cpap. I changed it myself.

I don't think the manufacturer is treating the consumers fairly on this. What's the big deal on the software? Other manufacturers make it available, so why not F&P? It looks like the Icon uses Infosmart software? The Sleepstyle uses PerformanceMaximer and it's not available for purchase. It's not like we can't make adjustments without the software...we just want the flexibility of seeing our reports at our convenience, and not have to go into the DME. I seriously doubt that my dr would have a clue what to do if I brought the smart stick into him!!

F&P needs to change this. I wouldn't buy from them again based on this problem. I wish I had known before accepting the machine!!

[Kahfree]

I am in the same situation as you. I have the F&P Sleepstyle 254 which is data capable too. However, without being able to purchase the software, that doesn't do me much good. My doctor wouldn't even write the prescription for auto, so when I bought the machine, the DME had to set it to cpap. I changed it myself.

I don't think the manufacturer is treating the consumers fairly on this. What's the big deal on the software? Other manufacturers make it available, so why not F&P? It looks like the Icon uses Infosmart software? The Sleepstyle uses PerformanceMaximer and it's not available for purchase. It's not like we can't make adjustments without the software...we just want the flexibility of seeing our reports at our convenience, and not have to go into the DME. I seriously doubt that my dr would have a clue what to do if I brought the smart stick into him!!

F&P needs to change this. I wouldn't buy from them again based on this problem. I wish I had known before accepting the machine!!

I agree, I too wish I had known more and on top of that, I really knew nothing about my rights when it comes to the purchase of these items. What I have learned is from this site. If you think about it, the doctors do not tell us we have the right to purchase the equipment. I understand that its the consumers responsibility to shop around, but if we do not know we can, we don't. When I went in to the office, they had the machine there for me. I did not have to call a DME, or go to their office to get pricing. In fact, I thought that the people who were with the Doctor WORKED for the hospital, when in fact they work alongside the doctor at the hospital. I did not know this. It should be a law that the doctor must reveal the information and give us a rights and facts sheet so we can better understand the whole process. Instead, its so fast with the "You have OSA, we need to treat this asap" and so, as your sitting there, your main concern is getting started on treatment. Most of us I am sure wont cause much damage waiting an additional night or two by seeking out a DME of their choice, or ordering it online. This sense of urgency that the hospital placed on me causes one to not have time to think. I am going to call my DME today and ask about the rental and what it would take for me to buy my own machine and turn this one back in. I just feel that no one is honest with me so why give them my business.

Kelly

[tschultz]

Being only on my second month of CPAP treatment I can say that I am very frustrated and with some degree of certainty that the whole industry that has been setup around our sleep issues is for the sole purpose of making others wealthy. Under the protection of federal laws everything requires prescription and this is where the major problem seems to lay. While I do not condone the concept of openly free access to medical devices I do have a major problem in trying to keep the patient from any single piece of information.

I do not understand why the treatment of OSA and other such conditions is treated any differently than diabetes where the patient is not only permitted to monitor his/her glucose levels but expected to do so and adjust treatment to optimize its efficacy. There is certainly much less danger involved with CPAP adjustments than there ever will be with insulin injections. To make things even worse I see the major measure of patient compliance simply being if the machine been used for 4 hours or more for 75% or more of days/nights. In VERY few cases if the effectiveness of the treatment ever taken into consideration. This makes absolutely no sense logically and is unacceptable when considered medically and/or scientifically. Even from a cost savings point of view for the insurance companies (people with effective treatment(s) cost less overall) so it makes no sense for them either.

It is my opinion that it should be illegal to provide a CPAP machine, auto or otherwise, that is not fully data capable. I would also suggest that the patients access to the data be no different than any other information, it is their property and can not be withheld from them. For these reasons the software should actually come with the machine as a mandatory accessory no different than the power adapter. Those patients that do not want to review their data do not have to, however if at any time the patient wants to review their treatment efficacy this should be easily accomplished and without additional expense or wait times.

I am afraid to even venture a guess at how many people are compliant with their treatment regimes but have no idea of if it truly as effective as it could be. We are trained from an early age to blindly trust the health professionals but even on this forum we see continual threads where people come in search of answers only to discover that their treatment is less than ideal. In the end it is the patient that suffers from the whole process that is meant to prevent us for knowing what's really going on - people are making lost of money with little or no monitoring of the process as a whole.

I would like to think that with enough pressure on the manufacturers and agencies that this situation can be changed. I for one have already started the process of drafting several letters to various government and medical groups regarding this very subject and now feel that perhaps the insurance agencies need to be included as well. Unfortunately I fear any real change will be an uphill battle at best, but it has to start somewhere - we have a right to optimal treatment and the information proving (or disproving) it.

I'm sorry but my many nights of oxygen deprivation due to undiagnosed OSA before treatment, combined with my frustrations trying to finalize my own treatment and equipment procurement, seem to have made me cranky and this is quickly becoming one of my soap boxes.

[Pugsy]

I'm sorry but my many nights of oxygen deprivation due to undiagnosed OSA before treatment, combined with my frustrations trying to finalize my own treatment and equipment procurement, seem to have made me cranky and this is quickly becoming one of my soap boxes.

Well, you probably should step down off the existing soap box and build a much bigger one that will house those of us that feel the same as you do. You will need a much bigger box..

I have always felt that for those people who want to blindly follow their docs and trust in the "gospel" according to the medical profession can sure do that if they want. This is not the way I want to be.
I worked in the medical field for more years that I want to count and I have seen good docs and bad docs. I have never been one to follow doctors just because they have that MD after their name. If a doctor doesn't want to let me be involved, then I go find a doctor that will.