Heated Hose failure - Resmed logic?

[Rogue Uvula]

My heated hose failed last night.
I knew failures were common and wasn't too concerned about it. After all, a heated hose is pure convenience.
I guess I've been remiss in not reading everything about this system.
Why on earth did ResMed decide to have the failure of a convenience feature result in the shut down of the entire CPAP which could be a major safety concern?
The last thing I expected was for my S-9 to shut off until I replaced the hose.
It seems analogous to having your car go dead if the interior overhead dome light burns out!
Does anyone know why ResMed chose this logic?

[DreamLady]

This is just an outright guess, but I can think of a couple scenarios where shutdown might be necessary.

1. Problem with heat regulation resulting in overheating
2. Electrical problem where the hose connects to the unit that could possibly result in fire could have been detected.
3. Sensor problem where cpu *thinks* the hose overheating or leaking or what ever might trigger shutdown.

There may be others. I haven't too many people complain about it shutting down their machine; just that it stopped heating. But maybe I misunderstood? No problems with mine so far.

[ResmedUser]

I too think the Resmed Climate control "heated hose" is the stupidest thing Ive tried out from Resmed. I stated that a few days ago here and got blasted out of the water here. I went back to the plain old basics, a regular hose with my heated humidifier cranked up to the max in the dry winter months. It will get turned down around April or May when the humidity levels creep back up.

Simple...

Its sad to see what used to be a great company (Resmed) go down the tubes.

Mikey

[Slartybartfast]

You didn't offer any further information as to the mode of failure, so I'll offer this:

If the humidifier reservoir runs dry it will shut down the machine and give an error response saying something like "Heated Hose Failure. Replace Hose." All you have to do is refill the humidifier reservoir and restart the machine and you're good to go.

[greg-g]

This is almost another guess, but if you rotate the hose connection at the humidifier so the electrical contacts aren't connected the S9 will not know you had a heated hose and will operate in its standard mode.

[DreamDiver]

My heated hose failed last night.
I knew failures were common and wasn't too concerned about it. After all, a heated hose is pure convenience.
I guess I've been remiss in not reading everything about this system.
Why on earth did ResMed decide to have the failure of a convenience feature result in the shut down of the entire CPAP which could be a major safety concern?
The last thing I expected was for my S-9 to shut off until I replaced the hose.
It seems analogous to having your car go dead if the interior overhead dome light burns out!
Does anyone know why ResMed chose this logic?

To isolate the problem, consider using the unheated hose that came with the machine. If the machine works fine with the unheated hose, get a replacement heated hose. If the machine is still problematic, it may need to be serviced.

[Rogue Uvula]

Thanks for the replies!
1) So I gather the machine does not usually shut down like this when the heated hose malfunctions?
Mine actually cut off (as in completely blocked any flow of) air for about ten seconds (guessing at duration - I was half asleep) then it went to allowing me to breath without any assist/pressure from the unit. The display was lit with the failure message.
2) It would sure make more sense if it cut the heat to the hose (or to the humidifier) instead of shutting down the entire CPAP! It could alert you then after you acknowledged, continue in non-heated mode.
3) I don't have a problem with the heated hose - actually it is all I know. I started CPAP 5 months ago and never have used a standard hose. However, I may have a problem with ResMed's implementation of it, depending on what is normal and why my unit did what it did.
4) I know my humidifier has run dry before without any error message (though my body sends a pretty strong message of dry throat by the time I wake up! ). The display cited a failure of the heated hose, so I assumed that is what it was; however, I checked and the humidifier reservoir was dry. My throat was not dry, so it must not have dried out long before it shut down. Hopefully that is all that was wrong!
5) Great idea on breaking the hose contacts, Greg! I should have thought of that! DOH!
6)Thanks DD. I now have the "stock" hose in the BR. We'll see what happens tonight!

With your responses, I have enough to be able to assess and react to what comes next. I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks!

However, I still don't get the decision to have it behave this way. Having the entire system fail because of an ancillary system failure is contrary to the fundamental intent of the machine - to support breathing function while sleeping. It seems like this is a critical function that would be maintained for every scenario reasonably possible!

[Slartybartfast]

[snip]

4) I know my humidifier has run dry before without any error message (though my body sends a pretty strong message of dry throat by the time I wake up! ). The display cited a failure of the heated hose, so I assumed that is what it was; however, I checked and the humidifier reservoir was dry. My throat was not dry, so it must not have dried out long before it shut down. Hopefully that is all that was wrong!

[snip]
However, I still don't get the decision to have it behave this way. Having the entire system fail because of an ancillary system failure is contrary to the fundamental intent of the machine - to support breathing function while sleeping. It seems like this is a critical function that would be maintained for every scenario reasonably possible!

It depends on how high you have the temperature set and what the room temperature is. If the humidifier temperature isn't set very high and/or the room temperature is cool, then the flow of air running through the chamber is probably enough to keep the air from overheating and generating the error message you saw and shutting down. I agree, that's a silly failure mode for a Medical Device. Better in my opinion to program it to shut off the heat and continue in normal mode. Seems to me that airflow should be maintained at all costs. But someone decided to be very conservative and cause it to shut down on fault.

Based on #4 above, I'd bet money your hose is fine and the shutdown and error message was generated only because you ran out of water. That's happened to me twice. Each time it was because I ran out of water.

[Big Daddy RRT,RPSGT]

I have a cool bedroom so even with a tubing cover I get rainout so the heated tubing has been awesome. I did have one tube get a rip but I've been told they are making them a little thicker now. I do have a regular hose as a back up though.

[DreamDiver]

However, I still don't get the decision to have it behave this way. Having the entire system fail because of an ancillary system failure is contrary to the fundamental intent of the machine - to support breathing function while sleeping. It seems like this is a critical function that would be maintained for every scenario reasonably possible!

I've read somewhere in the directions that if the heat is too high in the hose, it can sometimes burn out the hose. I've never seen it happen, but it does beg the question: what is your setting on the heated hose?

[Rogue Uvula]

Well, everything ran normal last night,so it was probably just a dry reservoir.
Is there a shutdown if you don't use a heated house and run dry?
I'll have to check the temp when I get back home, but I'm pretty sure its 74 or 76.
Thanks!

[DreamDiver]

Well, everything ran normal last night,so it was probably just a dry reservoir.
Is there a shutdown if you don't use a heated house and run dry?
I'll have to check the temp when I get back home, but I'm pretty sure its 74 or 76.
Thanks!

I've got mine set to 80. My reservoir has run dry before, but the machine did not shut off. Perhaps I woke up from dry mouth too soon for the machine to shut down. So, a full tank dries out in one night? That's a pretty dry environment.

I wasn't clear: did you try it last night with the standard hose or the heated hose?

[BernieRay]

When I got my S9 in November the DME's RRT mentioned that they had a number of S9 that had falsely reported a hose error. Supposedly ResMed had a bad batch of S9s and they had to swap the units out. The temporary fix the RRT told me was to disconnect/reconnect power.

I haven't had this problem, but thought it worth mentioning in case it impacts anyone else.

[Rogue Uvula]

Hmmm...

I used the heated hose last night.
I thought I had it set higher than it is. Actual setting is 72°F. FWIW, we turn the thermostat down from 71° to 68° when we go to bed.
When the outside temp is below ~35° (as it has been lately) the heat goes from heat pump to gas furnace. But I don't know if the humidifier actually monitors and adjusts humidity. I assumed it just has a higher uptake if the air is dry.

I generally only fill the reservoir about every 4 or 5 days. In truth, it has probably run dry dozens of times, I just didn't notice - only had a serious case of dry throat a couple of mornings.

Here is my reservoir filling strategy: When I go to bed and right after the auto-start, I will jostle the unit while the reservoir light is on. If I can see light shifting from refraction on water ripples, it's good! If I don't, I refill it. How slack is that?

[StevenXXXX]

My heated hose failed last night.
I knew failures were common and wasn't too concerned about it. After all, a heated hose is pure convenience.
I guess I've been remiss in not reading everything about this system.
Why on earth did ResMed decide to have the failure of a convenience feature result in the shut down of the entire CPAP which could be a major safety concern?
The last thing I expected was for my S-9 to shut off until I replaced the hose.
It seems analogous to having your car go dead if the interior overhead dome light burns out!
Does anyone know why ResMed chose this logic?

Your heated hose probably did not fail.

Click on this link to take you to the information there that I have listed under the link.

http://www.resmed.com/au/service_and_su ... c=patients

ClimateLine

What should I do if the S9 displays the message "Heated tube fault, replace tube"?Under certain use conditions it is possible for the S9 to incorrectly display a fault message regarding the ClimateLine tube. An incorrect fault message will occur only when a ClimateLine tube is being used and if the temperature inside the cuff attached to the mask exceeds 32°C (90°F). Typically this will only happen in warm room conditions, or if the ClimateLine tube cuff is placed underneath bed covers during therapy or left in direct sunlight during standby mode.

In order to confirm whether the ClimateLine tube is indeed faulty, briefly disconnect power from the device. If the fault message persists and is visible immediately after the S9 is powered up then the fault message is real and the ClimateLine tube should be replaced. In this case, therapy is not possible until the ClimateLine is replaced or the tubing is temporarily switched to the SlimLine.

If the fault message disappears then there is no fault with the tube. After allowing the tube cuff to cool below 32°C, removing power from the device will cancel the fault message and allow further use of the S9 system. But if during therapy mode the temperature inside the cuff again exceeds this temperature, the fault message will recur.

These operating conditions present no safety issue and it is not the intended operation for the S9 to display this fault message under these conditions. A simple software fix has been implemented in production to prevent this fault message being displayed.

The following advice actions can help to minimise the chance of this fault message recurring:

•Ensure the humidifier tub is full at the start of therapy. Operating with little or no water will allow more heat to be transferred from the H5i heater plate to the tube and increase the chance of exceeding 32°C at the cuff.
•Turn down the humidifier setting (in Manual mode) or ClimateLine setting (in Auto mode).
•If the above actions do not satisfactorily resolve the issue, the device should be returned to ResMed.