ZEO anybody use one?

[nmevan]

a friend just told me about ZEO

wondering what you folks think?

thanks

evan

[MikeSharp]

a friend just told me about ZEO

wondering what you folks think?

thanks

evan

Yup, I've got one. I used it primarily before I was diagnosed and on & off thereafter. For me it was definitely not diagnostic in any way, and they don't claim it is anyway. Looking through all the detailed graphs there is no apparent difference between my pre-CPAP and post-CPAP sleep. ...and my therapy is working *really* well; AHI of 25 down to ~2 now. pre-CPAP I was doing self monitoring with a pulse oximeter and the Zeo just trying to get a handle on what was going on. The doctors had all failed me at that point thinking I'd given myself heavy metal poisoning or some other odd neurological condition they couldn't identify even after a huge battery of tests, so it was up to me and a really insightful nurse-practitioner to do as much diagnostics as I could without the hot shots. While the zeo data didn't show anything terribly abnormal, the oximeter data clearly showed that something was going on. There was more than enough in the oximeter data to get a sleep study referral.

If you're an insomniac who is trying to figure out why, and you're willing to track all the little things like how many cups of coffee you had, when you went to bed, etc., the zeo may be quite useful for helping to find patterns and help you see the results of bad habits. If you read their literature that is what its really intended for.

--Mike

[meahmiller]

thanks so much for asking this question, i had also been wondering about the zeo.

so from what i gathered from mike sharp is that it may give you some (very little) data to use along with all our other devices to try and figure things out. i think it would be to labor intensive for me if you have to keep track of everything you drink along with other things

[DreamOn]

I haven't used the Zeo myself, so I can't comment on its usefulness. There have been other threads here that have discussed it in the past. I would much prefer Zeo software for use at home, rather than having to upload the data to their website. I'm also not sure if the wireless headband would work well with all CPAP mask headgear.

I see that cpap.com now sells the Zeo: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/zeo-pe ... coach.html. There is a forum for Zeo users here: http://blog.myzeo.com/forum/. It isn't very active, but I read some interesting posts there. They also have a blog: http://blog.myzeo.com/. If you search for past posts regarding the Zeo on our forum, you'll see some interesting information.

[Slartybartfast]

Just a source of additional information. You might take a look at the user reviews on amazon.com. Many of them aren't at all positive. If you read even the marginally positive ones, you can get an idea what the issues with the unit are. For what it's worth.

[MikeSharp]

They released a firmware update + java SDK + sample code that allows you to have full control of all your data without uploading anything to their web site. You have to sign up for it on the developer's site, and also know a bit about compiling java programs.

I've got the firmware upgrade and their sample java. It works. I'm really glad that Zeo published this upgrade. I can extract my data locally. There is no fancy GUI, charts, etc. You can get a big stack of numbers that you can interpret yourself. Bellow is the actual output from their stand alone program for one night. The long series of 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 that makes up most of the output is my sleep state for the given interval of time. Everything is there if you're prepared to deal with the information in this form. I suspect most people will really want to use their web site.

Sleep Date,ZQ,Total Z,Time to Z,Time in Wake,Time in REM,Time in Light,Time in Deep,Awakenings,Start of Night,End of Night,Rise Time,Alarm Reason,Snooze Time,Wake Tone,Wake Window,Alarm Type,First Alarm Ring,Last Alarm Ring,First Snooze Time,Last Snooze Time,Set Alarm Time,Morning Feel,Sleep Graph,Detailed Sleep Graph,Firmware Version
08/20/2010,82,439,2,3,87,283,69,1,08/21/2010 03:00,08/21/2010 10:59,,5,9,1,30,0,,,,,,0,,,43
08/21/2010,85,447,2,0,72,298,78,0,08/22/2010 03:10,08/22/2010 10:44,08/22/2010 10:40,5,9,1,30,0,,,,,,3,0 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3,0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 3 3 3 3 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 2,43

[MikeSharp]

thanks so much for asking this question, i had also been wondering about the zeo.

so from what i gathered from mike sharp is that it may give you some (very little) data to use along with all our other devices to try and figure things out. i think it would be to labor intensive for me if you have to keep track of everything you drink along with other things

Their primary idea, as I understand it, is that if you use their device, along with tracking your daily habits, you'll begin to see patterns of behavior that effect your sleep. An obvious example would be that its a bad idea to drink 4 double espressos before going to bed. Via their web site you can track and attempt to correlate a number of factors (alcohol, exercise, sleep environment, etc.) that effect you sleep. They also have an accompanying online self-help program with suggestions and techniques to help you improve you sleep habits. I can see the device being useful should you wish to work on understanding your habits and how they effect your sleep, etc.

I hope I didn't come off sounding too harsh in my last post. I mostly just wanted to point out that *I* didn't see any correlation of the data with my apneas, and Zero certainly doesn't suggest that their device would be useful in this regard. ...and even if they believe it could be they couldn't say it because then it'd be a diagnostic device, right?

When I went in for my first appointment with the sleep doctor I brought along a lot of my own data; a number of nights of oximetry data, some charts of sleep states from my zeo, etc. The doctor was most interested in, and convinced by the oximetry data. ("hmmm... looking at your symptoms & data, you definitely get the sleep study AND an MSLT after that") The Zeo data interested the doctor only because she hadn't seen anything like it before, but it didn't really suggest anything was normal/abnormal. We did have a nice discussion about sleep architecture as a result of looking at the data though.

Generally I'm positive about the Zeo for what they sell it for. It interests me technologically and I'm very keen to see where this goes as they develop the technology further.

[MikeSharp]

Nice! Yes, I usually take the detailed 30-second data and plot it into a bar chart in Excel.

Yup, I've done that too. These days I mostly use their web site.

Their blog has a post about "how it works". ... Also you probably saw on their developer site, they are supposedly working on a "Real Time" interface ...

I'm certainly interested in experimenting with the 2 second data if/when its available. I'm particularly curious to know if the algorithm for averaging this into the 30-second data, or perhaps the averaging into 5 minute data, gets in the way of seeing the effects of an apnea on sleep state.

[MikeSharp]

It is possible to wear the headband-sensor + a CPAP mask (that has a forehead connector), though a person's level of success at it may depend on specific geometry + real estate of the head. I have worn it a few times underneath the CPAP-mask connector and with some adjustments of the mask, it works.

Almost forgot to comment on this...

I prefer the hybrid masks as well as FFMs like the Hans Rudolph 7600 V2. With these you don't have anything on your forehead so using the headband-sensor-thingie isn't a problem.
There are quite a few nasal pillow masks that should be compatible with the Zeo headband too.