Who "owns" the data and the SD card?

[musicMaven]

I had a home visit today from my med supply vendor. They were swapping the machine because it might be defective. I wanted to keep the data card and put it in the new machine but she didn't let me. She took it and said I had to use the brand new card. I wanted to keep it and have all my data on one card but she refused and swiped it from my hand and put it in her pocket. She said the manufacturer might want to review the data to see what's wrong with the machine.

After she left, the more I thought about it, the more angry I got and wished I had not let her take the card. The way I see it, it's MY medical data, it's MY card (no longer in rental mode, even, I own the machine) and now it is no longer in my possession.

My question is, who's data is it? Who's card is it? Does the med supply company have the right to take it from me? Do I have any recourse? Does HIPAA cover this situation at all?

MusicMaven

[Wulfman]

I had a home visit today from my med supply vendor. They were swapping the machine because it might be defective. I wanted to keep the data card and put it in the new machine but she didn't let me. She took it and said I had to use the brand new card. I wanted to keep it and have all my data on one card but she refused and swiped it from my hand and put it in her pocket. She said the manufacturer might want to review the data to see what's wrong with the machine.

After she left, the more I thought about it, the more angry I got and wished I had not let her take the card. The way I see it, it's MY medical data, it's MY card (no longer in rental mode, even, I own the machine) and now it is no longer in my possession.

My question is, who's data is it? Who's card is it? Does the med supply company have the right to take it from me? Do I have any recourse? Does HIPAA cover this situation at all?

MusicMaven

Can you elaborate a little more on the history of the machine's "problems" and why they were swapping it......and for what model did they swap?......same exact model?......is the replacement one brand new?
Also, was the machine purchased outright by your insurance or is it on a monthly rental/payment plan?

In my opinion, it's still YOUR data and potentially YOUR card.


Den

[musicMaven]

It was displaying nonsense summary data on the "info" screen for 3 days (said I slept for 24 hours, averages didn't make sense and didn't change), then it refused to turn on at all. Once I rebooted it, seemed to work ok but they checked the pressure and it wasn't correct. So they were going to give me a rental while it was checked out but surprised me today by swapping it completely for a new machine.

The new one is almost the same. The old one was a ResMed S9 Elite and the new one is a ResMed S9 Auto. I am confused why they did that, also. Yes, it was so brand new she didn't take it out of the box before she arrived. I only swapped the main unit, though, not all the other parts.

My understanding is that only the first two months were rental, then it became a purchase. The rental period would have ended in June, so I'm assuming it's mine. Should look at the insurance invoices to make sure.

Thanks for your feedback.

MM

[GumbyCT]

My question is, who's data is it? Who's card is it? Does the med supply company have the right to take it from me? Do I have any recourse? Does HIPAA cover this situation at all?

You need to file an Official HIPAA complaint =
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/co ... index.html

I think it is your data and part of your medical record. I think this (data card info) has yet to be decided and that you will set a precedence.

Let us know how you make out.

Good Luck

[Wulfman]

It was displaying nonsense summary data on the "info" screen for 3 days (said I slept for 24 hours, averages didn't make sense and didn't change), then it refused to turn on at all. Once I rebooted it, seemed to work ok but they checked the pressure and it wasn't correct. So they were going to give me a rental while it was checked out but surprised me today by swapping it completely for a new machine.

The new one is almost the same. The old one was a ResMed S9 Elite and the new one is a ResMed S9 Auto. I am confused why they did that, also. Yes, it was so brand new she didn't take it out of the box before she arrived. I only swapped the main unit, though, not all the other parts.

My understanding is that only the first two months were rental, then it became a purchase. The rental period would have ended in June, so I'm assuming it's mine. Should look at the insurance invoices to make sure.

Thanks for your feedback.

MM

Sounds like one of those "good news / bad news" situations......
On one hand, you got an upgrade and on the other, you lost a data card. As long as you get to keep the Auto, you came out better on that trade.......even considering they took your data card.

Do you have the software and/or had you downloaded the data from the card recently?


Den

[breakfast]

As far as I know (after a battle to obtain my records from my former PCP), your medical records and any media they are stored on are the property of the practice that is generating that information. You have a right to unlimited access, but they own it.

As for the matter of the SD card, check your warranty information. You may own the card but it may specify that under the warranty terms you must include it with the machine. You do still have the right to that data and I would contact them to determine how to retrieve it.

[GumbyCT]

As far as I know (after a battle to obtain my records from my former PCP), your medical records and any media they are stored on are the property of the practice that is generating that information. You have a right to unlimited access, but they own it.

Not unlike an xray or MRI.

[sph110]

Can I take a contrary view? I'm not defending snatching the card, but it sounds to me as though she was justified
in trying to persuade you to exchange cards. Since you said the machine was displaying nonsense summary data, it seems
likely that data on the card was nonsense also. It is reasonable that the company might want to look at it to diagnose
what was wrong with the machine, and I don't see why it is so important to you, even though legally it is yours.
You will soon generate new and better data.

As to the exchange of machines, I recently made the same exchange, auto for elite, because the auto is more
flexible. It can, if you wish, maintain a lower pressure, which for me is more comfortable, and increase the pressure when
it detects an event is imminent. I wish I knew how it did that, but I have found research on the internet which
indicates that the results of this procedure are just as good as when a constant high pressure is maintained.
You can, if you want, continue to have the constant high pressure which was set from your sleep study,
which might be good if it doesn't bother you, but you have added flexibility with the auto. So overall, I think you are better off.

[LoQ]

I think there is something for the rest of us to learn from your unfortunate experience. When you have a machine with a card, make sure you always have several spare cards. Before any of these creeps have access to your machine, replace the real card with some throw-away card, one you are willing to let them have.


I'm sorry you had to learn this lesson, but I hope that by sharing it with the rest of us, someone reading this may go out and buy some spare cards so they don't get stuck in the situation you found yourself in.


I don't see how you could have anticipated that they would take the card, so don't blame yourself. I sure would not have expected that to happen.

[GumbyCT]

It is part of the learning curve. I remember removing my card BEFORE a DME visit - he just read the compliance info off the LCD.

I seriously doubt any repair tech would have an interest in what is on the card. There might even be a self-test programmed into the firmware. I am sure they also have their own diagnostic software. The DME would be the one interested in the card info but could also get it off the LCD.

I would be suspicious this new auto is just a loaner. Did you have to sign anything? If so, what does it say?

[Wulfman]

It is part of the learning curve. I remember removing my card BEFORE a DME visit - he just read the compliance info off the LCD.

I seriously doubt any repair tech would have an interest in what is on the card. There might even be a self-test programmed into the firmware. I am sure they also have their own diagnostic software. The DME would be the one interested in the card info but could also get it off the LCD.

I would be suspicious this new auto is just a loaner. Did you have to sign anything? If so, what does it say?

It could be that they might need the compliance (or other) data from the card to justify swapping the machine (for their records). It's also possible that that person swapping the machine wasn't sure what needed to be taken and thought it safer than to have to make another trip back to the user's home.


Den

[Kevin G.]

If you own the machine you own the card and the information on it. They stole your property. In any case you have a right to the medical data. Since the data was not generated by or used equipment owned by your PCP I would argue that they do not own the data on the SD card.

If you want ResMed to repair or replace your machine they have a reasonable right to look at the card and make a copy of any data. If you do not wish them to repair or replace your machine you do not need to give them access to your card.

I would send the DME a message to the effect that you want the card or a copy of the card returned. Note that if you do not receive it you intend to file an HIPAA complaint. Be civil and do not rant. It is not worth the blood pressure and if it gets messy later the fact that you acted reasonably will help your case.

[valajn2]

i am interested in an answer to this question as well....once we are given the machines and our insurance companies are paying for their use month and month, wouldnt they become our machines? or are they being rented?
also, is there a way to take the chip out and read it on a home computer? i wouldnt know what i was reading probably, but, i want to know if my doctor is giving me acurate information.
if i had a friend who was pretty tech savvy, or could an rn read it? or would it have to be a respitory therapist or med tech?
if anyone can answer my question please let me know, i go back to my doctor on the 9th and would like to know what questions to ask him to check for me....

[Kevin G.]

Valajn2

You should tell the doctor that you want to see how other factors in your life impact the effectiveness of your treatment. Mention that you would like the software so that you can download and printout detailed reports. This assumes that this is possible with your current machine. If not you will have another discussion about getting a machine with this capability.

Another rational for being able to download and print out the data is to save the cost and time of having the DME do this.

Telling the doctor that you want to know if he is giving you accurate information is not productive and if that is your primary reason either there are problems with the doctor patient relationship or you are too suspicious.

Some doctors are cool and will write you a prescription to get the software. On the other extreme some doctors are threatened by this. This could result in a choice to get another doctor. DMEs will typically claim that you cannot have the software because you will then have the ability to adjust your prescription settings and they will claim that this is illegal.

If you have a machine that allows you to download the data but you cannot get the cooperation of your physician you can download the software for some machines without getting permission.

In California it is clearly spelled out in the regulations that you have the right to adjust your own machine. When the DME says otherwise they are lying and consider reporting them to the agency that regulates DMEs. Changing the settings by other than a close family member must be done by a doctor or respiratory therapist but you can change your own settings.

[rosiefrosie]

Do you have the ReScan software to down load the info from the card on your computer? Is so,depending om when you last downloaded the info you should have it on your computer. If not ask them for ALL the info from that card and yes it is part of your medical record and you have a right to that information. You may have to pay for copy fees. Next time when they come out I would tuck the card away, out of sight out of mind.

rosie