OT: A Quick Look At DSM-V

[mars]

Hi All

This should get the adrenalin going -

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 42834.html

to keep the rush going try -

http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx

cheers

Mars

[jnk]

Hi All

This should get the adrenalin going -

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 42834.html

to keep the rush going try -

http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx

cheers

Mars

What does it mean if I don't understand the controversy and so it doesn't affect my adrenalin at all? Is there a name for that?

Organizing a list and associated protocols does not make the list law and does not take away freedom of choice. And the fact that some abuse the list does not make the list itself evil. It is information, to be used or ignored, as one sees fit.

Sometimes humans need intervention of some sort to save their lives or to improve quality of life. So it does not bother me that a book lists certain problems that may at times require attention in order to save a life or to improve the quality of life for someone who finds himself or herself in a particular circumstance.

After all, some people find they need to take meds to deal with the common cold; some just eat chicken soup; others ignore it completely. It is their choice. Likewise, some people take a flu shot; others don't. To me, it is much the same with so-called "mental disorders." If someone needs help, it is good there is a book that will help experts get them that help in a way that seems to have helped others, and in a way that it can get paid for. And I assume that to be true even if I personally might not choose to avail myself of any of that help because of my personal belief system, if that were to be the case for me.

Some doctors reject the idea of OSA. But I'm glad it is listed in the right book so that my machine got paid for, myself.

But, hey, maybe I miss the point. I often do. And I apologize in advance if my post affects anyone's adrenalin. Hopefully there is a treatment for that.

jeff

[mars]

Hi Jeff

What does it mean if I don't understand the controversy and so it doesn't affect my adrenalin at all? Is there a name for that?

Well, with the DSM it usually means you are dead, but for you it probably means you have reached that pinnacle of human enlightenment where what the DSM says does not matter.

IMMANUEL KANT
An Answer to the Question:
What is Enlightenment? (1784)

Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] "Have courage to use your own understanding!"--that is the motto of enlightenment.

http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html

I too am trying to reach that level, but in the meantime I am waiting for the "Cpaptalk.com Addiction Syndrome" to appear so I can get help and stop making these posts that people do not understand.

cheers

Mars

[jnk]

. . it usually means you are dead, but for you it probably means you have reached that pinnacle of human enlightenment where what the DSM says does not matter. . . .

Actually hypochondriacs such as myself are not allowed to read the DSM--it just makes our adrenalin rise and then we die. Or at least, we think we do.

[unadog]

so I can get help and stop making these posts that people do not understand.

No-one truly understands Kant!

I have adegree in Philosophy. I even went to grad school for Philosophy for 1 week. Until I concluded those folks were so "sucked up into their heads" that they couldn't communicate with humans! (Sort of like some computer programmers I have known.)

So I spent the next 30 years working on my right brain, through meditation, rather than my left brain. Much more rewarding!

ANYway. fOR THOSE OF YOU WHOP ARE INTERESTED IN THE POLITICS OF THE dsm. tHERE HAVE BEEN SOME DECENT RADIO SHOWS .... sorry, caps off .... abou t the controversy in the proposed DSM-V about eliminating Asbergers in favor of only an Autism diagnosis. Supposedly will help with gaining insurance payments for treatment, but there are high functioning folks who don't want to be labelled with Autism. Quite interesting debate on both sides, actually.

There is also a lonmg piece on This American Life about the lobbying and politics around the DSM-IV rewrite, and the defition of whether certain sexual behaviors constituted an "illness." I don't want to open up the discussion here, it really is not productive, but it a fascinating glimpse of history and politics from 1973 if you have the time:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... 4/81-Words


Who knew it could actually be interesting? Like Kant .....

PS: I remember trying to read the "Critique of Pure Reason" on my own, as a junior I think in college, on a nice sunny fall day in the north woods. I had heard that it was one of the most important books ever written. I spent at least 3 hours trying to figure out the first 3 pages .... kind of like reading quantum physics I think:

“I think I can safely say that nobody understands Quantum Mechanics”
Richard Feynman quotes (American theoretical physicist, 1918-1988

[jnk]

. . . No-one truly understands Kant! . . .

Including Kant. But if we really understood ourselves and one another, we wouldn't need philosophy.

. . . I have a degree in Philosophy. . . .

That is on a top-ten list of phrases one never writes in an Internet forum. Just so you know.

. . . they couldn't communicate with humans . . .

I'm sorry, but for the sake of argument here, you're gonna have to define "humans."

. . . I spent the next 30 years working on my right brain . . . rather than my left brain. Much more rewarding!. . .

Fortunately, both sides of my brain are equally underdeveloped.

. . . ANYway. fOR THOSE OF YOU WHOP ARE INTERESTED IN THE POLITICS OF THE dsm. tHERE HAVE BEEN SOME DECENT RADIO SHOWS . . .

What does medicine have to do with politics?

And, what, exactly, would a "decent radio show" on a politically-charged topic even sound like these days? I haven't heard one of those since the 70's.

. . . the defition of whether certain sexual behaviors constituted an "illness." . . .

Didn't Freud say all sex was an illness? (Eh, what does a neurologist know, anyway.) I think he said it in a lecture after someone had turned his microphone off. Sort of lecturus interruptus (or is that "lecherous interuptus"?).

I'm SO confused!!!!

[unadog]

[I'm SO confused!!!!

Master Dogen taught, “As for mountains, there are mountains hidden in treasures; there are mountains hidden in marshes, mountains hidden in the sky; there are mountains hidden in mountains. There is a study of mountains hidden in hiddenness. An old master said, ‘Mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers.’ The meaning of these words is not that mountains are mountains, but that mountains are mountains. Therefore we should thoroughly study these mountains. When we thoroughly study the mountains, this is the mountain training. Such mountains and rivers themselves spontaneously become wise ones and sages."


Who needs Kant!

OK, gotta go get the kid at school.....

[Slinky]

Yeah, well, "MY" DMS-101 says you are all NUTS - and we love you for it!

[echo]

I too am trying to reach that level, but in the meantime I am waiting for the "Cpaptalk.com Addiction Syndrome" to appear so I can get help and stop making these posts that people do not understand.

I think there is no treatment for CAS except for an internet blackout or a coma
I think I know what the diagnostic criteria would be, what is the treatment?

Oh on a real sad note, there was an article in a recent issue of Wired of a boy in China who died at an 'internet addiction camp'. So very sad. (I was going to start joking about "CAS" and then i remembered this article, so I think i'll back off that and find something else to make fun of).

.....
....

I agree with Slinky

[-SWS]

Hi All

This should get the adrenalin going -

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 42834.html

to keep the rush going try -

http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx

cheers

Mars

It's reassuring to know that in just a single DSM release so many have gone from being relatively normal to being behavioral fruitcakes by definition...

The world is a crazy place and DSM-V is out to prove it!

[Learnin as I Go]

Now I know why Echo warned me on another thread to be careful reading here lest I laugh so hard my stitches break. Thanks Echo for all your help.

Ed

[echo]

Now I know why Echo warned me on another thread to be careful reading here lest I laugh so hard my stitches break. Thanks Echo for all your help.

Ed

Now THAT made ME laugh OUT LOUD, that's great Ed Laughter is the best medicine

[dsm]

Jeeze MARS Look what ya done !!

Started a philosophy debate

DSM

(& look who joined in )

[mars]

Jeeze MARS Look what ya done !!

Started a philosophy debate

DSM

(& look who joined in )

What I did ?

You're the one called DSM !!!

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-SWS quote - The world is a crazy place and DSM-V is out to prove it!

And if DSM-V doesn't do it, I bet DSM-VI will. Or we will.

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Hi All

I hear a rumour that DSM-VI might have -

FPD, the Flamer Personality Disorder?!!

W. Beaty, 2001

I've met a certain class of people on Newsgroups and e-lists who all seem to have the same "symptoms." I am led to suspect that their type of behavior might be a form of mental illness. To discuss this, first I must define it. My list of diagnostic criteria for FPD, the FLAMER PERSONALITY DISORDER is below. (grin) Know anyone like this? It's a composite description of two real-world people I know, plus three of the worst internet trolls I've encountered, plus the "flamer" side of my own personality (yes, we all have one.)

FPD Symptoms:

1.Namecaller: This defines the flamer. "Flamer" means "namecaller"... -->

2. Competitive/argumentative: flamers are fighters; verbal brawlers. We greatly enjoy arguments for their own sake, and will start flamewars intentionally.... -->

3. Amoral: we think that our insults, verbal abuse, character attacks, and even death threats are perfectly acceptable behavior, once "justified"... -->

4. Vengeful: flamers believe that once an insult has been received, it becomes perfectly acceptable to return the insult, or even to embark on a longrunning insult stream... -->

5. Deceitful: we see nothing wrong with deception and distortion as long as we're not caught... -->

6. Narcisstic: we have extreme vanity, taking the form of an exquisite sensitivity to anything which even SLIGHTLY resembles an insult... -->

7. Paranoid: we flamers constantly display secretive behavior, being careful to never freely discuss personal info about our schooling, experience, everyday lives... -->

8. No self-doubt. Perfect people never monitor themselves to avoid mistakes... -->

9. Self-blind: No insight into our own flaws and foibles... -->

10. Hypocritical: totally enmeshed in a self-serving bias: "when I do something, it's a pure and justified deed, but when you do exactly the same thing, it's a shameful and disgusting PLOY." -->

11. Self-important: we have a very low opinion of others, and an exalted (if dishonest) opinion of ourselves... -->

12. Denying/projecting: We cannot see reality honestly, but must constantly manipulate it by erasing some parts and distorting others. -->

13. Pervasive, long-standing, intense symptoms -->

Now wouldn't that be something.

Maybe I should just admit that most of my time on the Forum I have been suffering from some of the above. I know many of you will say all of the above, Well, fortunately I just had a spontaneous remission only yesterday, and now I only post in a humble and caring manner.

The full article is at http://amasci.com/weird/flamer.html

cheers

Mars

[jnk]

Here is my translation of the FPD symptoms:

FPD Symptoms:

1.Namecaller: This defines the flamer. "Flamer" means "namecaller"... -->

Translation: Anyone who calls anyone else one IS one. So THERE!

2. Competitive/argumentative: flamers are fighters; verbal brawlers. We greatly enjoy arguments for their own sake, and will start flamewars intentionally.... -->

Translation: Flamers care deeply about issues and always enjoy interpersonal interactions.

3. Amoral: we think that our insults, verbal abuse, character attacks, and even death threats are perfectly acceptable behavior, once "justified"... -->

Translation: War is heck.

4. Vengeful: flamers believe that once an insult has been received, it becomes perfectly acceptable to return the insult, or even to embark on a longrunning insult stream... -->

Translation: Every board is a mini United Nations.

5. Deceitful: we see nothing wrong with deception and distortion as long as we're not caught... -->

Translation: All the rules of the "intelligence community" apply online.

6. Narcisstic: we have extreme vanity, taking the form of an exquisite sensitivity to anything which even SLIGHTLY resembles an insult... -->

Translation: Yes, flamers are humans too.

7. Paranoid: we flamers constantly display secretive behavior, being careful to never freely discuss personal info about our schooling, experience, everyday lives... -->

Translation: Flamers protect their privacy, just like everyone else.

8. No self-doubt. Perfect people never monitor themselves to avoid mistakes... -->

Translation: Flamers have been taught since childhood to have "a healthy sense of self-esteem."

9. Self-blind: No insight into our own flaws and foibles... -->

"O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."

10. Hypocritical: totally enmeshed in a self-serving bias: "when I do something, it's a pure and justified deed, but when you do exactly the same thing, it's a shameful and disgusting PLOY." -->

Translation: Double-standards are the standard standard.

11. Self-important: we have a very low opinion of others, and an exalted (if dishonest) opinion of ourselves... -->

Translation: Doesn't play well with others.

12. Denying/projecting: We cannot see reality honestly, but must constantly manipulate it by erasing some parts and distorting others. -->

Translation: If anyone has lost touch with his reality, he may feel free to borrow mine.

13. Pervasive, long-standing, intense symptoms -->

Translation: The only thing worse than being chronically acute is being acutely chronic.

jeff (a recovering flaming name-caller)