I hate doctors

[DottyG]

I need to tell someone about all of this. I figured y'all would understand.

I've wanted a consult with a doctor for months now to get some feedback on how my therapy is going, get some answers to my questions about the sleep study, get some ideas on how to proceed from here..... Basically, what I wanted was what I was supposed to get after I did the sleep study - someone who would be on my side in this and help me make sure everything's going according to plan and help me monitor whether this is helping me get healthier.

The prescribing doctor is a jerk (and that's a mild word for what I want to say about him). He pretty much wrote the prescription for the study and then washed his hands of the whole thing. He doesn't want to help me follow up on anything. So, I decided to go back to the doctor who actually read the study.

I did this sleep study at a place not far from my parents' house - that way, I could stay with them for the weekend and then run over one night and do the test. It's a small community, and I thought this would be a better place to do it than in the big city where I live. So, in order to talk to this doctor in person, I took off a day of work.

Since I was already taking a day off from work, I decided to slip in my eye doctor appointment as well. As long as I was off, might as well take care of that annual visit, too. And, like they always do, they dilated my eyes for the exam. That exam was several hours before the sleep study doctor meeting, so I thought my eyes would be more normal by then - I didn't think anything about it.

Meeting with the sleep study doctor was a complete waste of my time. I wish I hadn't gone.

First of all, she harped on the fact that the output from my datacard showed that I hadn't been wearing the mask. I kept telling her that the report that she was looking at was old - that I'd begged for an updated report for her, but I couldn't get anyone to give me one. So, if she's looking at data from a couple of months ago, no. I wasn't wearing it at that point consistently. And, if she'd actually have let me explain, she would have understood why I hadn't worn it. I told her several times that I've been wearing it every night since the report that she was looking at, but she didn't seem to hear me. She just kept berating me for not wearing it. I AM WEARING IT NOW, WOMAN.

She wanted to know what kinds of meds I take. So, I listed the 3 that I take every day. Normal stuff - for instance, Aciphex for GERD. Nothing unusual. But, she didn't believe me. Seems my pupils were dilated, and that meant that I was on drugs. I had totally forgotten about my pupils. I said, "Oh, my goodness! I'm so sorry - I meant to tell you when I walked in that I've been at the eye doctor, and he dilated my pupils! I guess they're still a bit dilated!" She didn't believe me. I could tell that she thought I was lying and that I was on some kind of narcotic. I wasn't. She kept asking me if I was sure I hadn't taken something else - something that was maybe illegal. I can't help it if my eye doctor dilates my eyes when I go for exams. I thought that was standard. Isn't that pretty common? I really thought it was.

I asked her about still feeling tired all the time - even though I've been wearing the mask every night. I told her I just don't feel a lot of energy. So, of course, she told me several times I need to lose weight. No #$#%, Sherlock. You think I don't look at myself in the mirror EVERY SINGLE DAY and not see the fat slob staring back? I know I need to lose weight. And, I was hoping that being on this therapy would help me do that - both by getting my hormones back in line and just feeling the energy to actually go out and exercise. She harped on my weight for a while. I know I'm fat. Please don't tell me that again. I'm trying to get someone to see past the fat and see the human here. I want you to help me as a person - not as a fat person. Please?

She did go over the report with me. Although, I could do that on my own. It's not like she gave me any additional information - she just read the report out loud to me. Apparently, when you're on drugs, you can't read? I don't know. (/sarcasm) I guess that was her assumption. But, I was looking for information BEYOND what I was able to read in the report myself. I wanted answers that went beyond that.

Where are the good doctors? I need a good doctor who's going to help me - both with the sleep thing and with my health in general. And, I can't find any that are good. I need someone who's helpful. I need some compassion. I need someone to see BEYOND the fat on the outside and see me as a person. I need someone who will let me be a partner in my healthcare - not just dictate to me. I need someone who's going to help me. Why can't I find this person?

[Madalot]

Wow --

I can tell you that I've dealt with my share of doctors like that. It makes you wonder how they ever maintain a practice, doesn't it?

I don't waste any more time than necessary with doctors like that. There ARE very good doctors out there, but sometimes it takes a while to find them. You have to keep searching and be willing to waste some time (not easy I know) to weed through the idiots out there.

I'm sorry this doctor was such a jerk, especially not believing you about the eye appointment and such. I have to tell you that would tick me off if somebody did that to me.

[imtired]

i am so happy that my doc was so easy to deal with. im sure you will find a better place

[chipbug]

What a horrible experiance! It shouldn't have been that way.

The only time I go to Doctors now is after I have already diagnosed myself and have decided I need either a prescription or surgery. I then convince the Doctor to give me whatever it was that I decided I needed.

I have found most Doctors have been brainwashed by the pharmacuetical companies. The big pharmacuetical companies make big grants to the medical schools, underwrite medical school text books, lobby congress to control medical laws, and send reps into all the Doctors offices daily giving away free stuff to them. The pharmacuetical companies are highly organised money making machines that don't care about patients other than that sick patients take their drugs. The poor Doctors really don't have a chance in this environment. They have to play according to the rules or have their license revoked.

All I can tell you is that YOU are ultimately responsible for your health. Take advantage of the internet to learn all you can about your health and to enterpret your symptoms. Don't blindly follow a Doctors advice. You can actually become better informed than him and you are not bound to methods, procedures, and rules that the Doctor has to follow.

David Bearrow

[DottyG]

All I can tell you is that YOU are ultimately responsible for your health. Take advantage of the internet to learn all you can about your health and to enterpret your symptoms. Don't blindly follow a Doctors advice. You can actually become better informed than him and you are not bound to methods, procedures, and rules that the Doctor has to follow.

I think that's why doctors don't like me. Because I already AM that kind of person. I don't take a medication without researching it first. And, the pharmacists know that I'm never going to just pick up a med - I'm going to ask them for a consult on what this med is, what it does, what the side effects are, etc.

I know I have to be in charge. But, at some point, I need someone on the other end taking up their part of the slack. There's only so much I can do. I can push for tests to be done, but I can't be the one who actually writes the prescription to make it happen. I can do all the research in the world, but if I can't get the medical community to listen to me when I bring my findings to them, I'm stuck. And, I'm tired. I'm just getting tired of knowing something's not right. I'm tired of fighting. I need someone to be there to give me some strength now, because I'm getting to the end of mine.

I'm the one who diagnosed my own gallstones. Not only did I know I had gallstones, but I knew I had about 30 or 40 of them. I had to fight a doctor to get me in for surgery. He didn't believe me. And, he didn't believe that I knew I had more than one. He did an ultrasound, and guess what? I had about 30 or 40 gallstones in there. Surprise. The patient actually knew something about her own body.

I had a doctor tell me I had a sty in my eye once. I knew I didn't. I went to his office EVERY DAY FOR A WEEK and FORCED him to see me even without an appointment (I even have that documented in the diary I kept that year - every single day, I went there). He ended up yelling at me because he was so angry that I wouldn't trust him that it was just a regular sty. He finally washed his hands of me and said another doctor in the office was going to have to treat me from then on, because I was such a difficult patient and wouldn't listen to him. Lo and behold, it wasn't a sty. It was shingles. And, it'd gotten into my eye and caused (what we hope is not permanent) damage. And, because the other doctor had waited so long to get me help, it was too late to do anything but let the disease run its course and hope that the damage to my eye is resolved at some point. That was 10 years ago this January. The scarring was still there the last time I saw the eye doctor.

I've been my own advocate for years now. And, I'm TIRED of being the only one fighting this battle. I'm tired of having to yell and scream and FORCE someone to actually do what I thought was their job to do - help me feel better.

[Jersey Girl]

Dear DottyG,

I am so sorry that this doctor said that to you? How awful. Of course, most of us get our eyes dilated when we see the eye doctor. Of course you were going to this doctor for information, an expert opinion, if you will. If I were you, I would look for another pulminary doctor that specializes in sleep medicine, interview him or her and decide if you want him/her to be your new doctor.

Regards,

Jersey Girl

[rosacer]

DottyG

Let me tell you that your history made me feel a bit mad (I try not to get mad on this days). I understand your feelings about those uncompassionated doctors. Sadly there is a lot of those.

Me too I need to loss weight and I have seen the condescendance on the faces of some people to whom I told I had been diagnosed with OSA, it was almost like telling me it's because of your weight stop crying about and loss weight. OSA made me gain weight on the months I was very sick, but people don't see or understand that problem.

A lot of people DON'T UNDERSTAND at all what we live and have no compassion eider. I decided to have compassion on those people instead of feeling mad or diminished, I should say sometimes I need to make a conscious effort! But in he case of that doctor I think I would have told her a couple of things.

Don't be discouraged! You can maybe ask here in the forum who knows a good doctor in your area. That's what I did and a nice lady who lives in my area (BlackSpinner) gave me information about her doctor and even tried to find a second one for me. Now I'm making what is needed to have an appointment with him and fire the one send me to the sleep test.

Don't give up continue fighting and things will change.

And yes it's normal to have the eyes dilated once a year for eyes examination, I had it this year for a retina picture. I would never had think the doc would believe you was on drugs, what a joke.

In any case I hope you to find a good doctor. And if you are able try to become self sufficient with the data reading from your machine.

[Country4ever]

I'm so sorry for your bad experience.
I, too, have had my share of bad doctors. I have fibromyalgia, and spent years going to all sorts of docs, and I can tell you, there aren't very many good ones and there aren't many compassionate ones. I think that's why forums like this are so valuable.
I have worked as an RN in a small hospital, and then in a large hospital, and I will take the large one any day over the smaller one. What I found at the smaller one is that there were lots more arrogant doctors (and nurses) who thought they knew lots more than they did. Lots of incompetence too.
Go to the big city and find some new docs.
Good luck to you!

[SleepingUgly]

Dotty,

Where are the good doctors? I need a good doctor who's going to help me - both with the sleep thing and with my health in general. And, I can't find any that are good. I need someone who's helpful. I need some compassion. I need someone to see BEYOND the fat on the outside and see me as a person. I need someone who will let me be a partner in my healthcare - not just dictate to me. I need someone who's going to help me. Why can't I find this person?

I've been my own advocate for years now. And, I'm TIRED of being the only one fighting this battle. I'm tired of having to yell and scream and FORCE someone to actually do what I thought was their job to do - help me feel better.

I hear ya', Sister. I am having trouble finding this person, too. But I have had some good doctors, so I know they exist; they are just hard to find. The more you learn and research, the harder the ideal doctor is to find because even if you meet an empathic doctor, you can tell if they don't know much. Also, the more questions we ask, the more time we take, and the more time we take...

If you're overweight, they can tell you that is a contributing factor, and put the ball back in your court. But even if you're not overweight, it does not ensure a collaborative attitude, respect for the patient who tries to learn what she can about her condition, etc. I had a doctor tell me that I was asking about diagnoses that I am not competent to understand. It's not like I had treated myself for the condition I was inquiring if I might have, and I fully and immediately accepted his response when he said there's no chance. But still, he basically told me I'm incompetent to ask a question.

Doctors have to treat their patients, even when the patients don't do what the doctor would like them ideally to do. Patients don't lose weight, they continue to smoke or drink, they don't exercise, etc. Too bad. It's still the doctor's responsibility to try to help them to the best of their ability.

There's a search on sleepguide.com where you can look up providers in your area. If you have access to Angie's List, that might be another way. Also there are lots of search engines where you can look up particular doctors' ratings. Someone else suggested that you post where you live, if you're willing, and others who live in your area might be able to recommend someone. That's a great idea. Keep looking... I know it's hard when you're tired, and discouraged.

[SleepyBobR]

Unfortunately for us Apnea sufferers, it seems like the sleep doctors and sleep specialists could actually be the worst of the lot.

[kteague]

Having an experience like that is disheartening, been there a few times myself. A couple times I left an appointment with my head spinning, wondering what in the world just happened. I hope I've had enough recovery and learning to hopefully be able to deal with things head on should it happen again. Your experience will prepare you for future encounters. I now have a few "trick-in-a-bag" lines in case I need them. One is, "Excuse me, but did I miss the answer to my question in that?" And, "I'm sensing that you have a negative perception of me. Is there something I can clear up for you so that we can get past it?" And, "Doc, I don't want to waste your time or mine. Do you see my problem as one you can help me resolve?" But I really hope to never again have need to use them. I hate being confrontational.

No, you shouldn't have to go thru this. I am so fortunate to have docs I am comfortable with right now. Any time there's a change or referrals I'm a bit on guard. There are good sleep docs out there. When I first saw my sleep doc, my weight was a "bigger" issue than it is now. She did make reference to it, but said to not worry about that yet, that we needed to get me feeling better first then deal with the weight. I could have cried.

Hope you find what and who you need. With OSA that is not complicated by other conditions, you'll likely be able to sort thru most issues with peer suuport. Best wishes.

Kathy

[DottyG]

but said to not worry about that yet, that we needed to get me feeling better first then deal with the weight.

That's possible? Really?

Not just that a doctor can say that to you, but that the actual "it can wait until you feel better" is possible, too?

I want this kind of doctor. How do I find this kind of doctor?

[DottyG]

I got to thinking that this idiot doctor may have put something in my records about being on drugs. Then, I realized that I had proof that it was just due to the dilation of my eyes for the exam. I could have the eye doctor fax them a letter assuring this sleep doctor that it was due to the eye exam and not anything else (had I really been thinking clearly at the time, I could have shown her the receipt from the eye doctor - I didn't think to do that).

So, I just called and asked the front desk if that'd be possible. She said that the report isn't back from dictation, yet. But, that she's going to check it for anything that says I was on drugs when she gets it. That way, she can see if I need to get a letter from the eye doctor.

She's going to send me a copy of the report as well, of course.

It sounds like at least the front desk lady believes me. That's progress.

[Madalot]

but said to not worry about that yet, that we needed to get me feeling better first then deal with the weight.

That's possible? Really?

Not just that a doctor can say that to you, but that the actual "it can wait until you feel better" is possible, too?

I want this kind of doctor. How do I find this kind of doctor?

I had my first neurologist tell me flat out that my weight was a serious problem and that I needed to lose weight. When I didn't come back for my next visit, 3 weeks later, 50 pounds lighter, he got mad and said I HAD to be a closet snacker! No matter what I said to him, he didn't believe that I didn't snack nonstop, which I didn't.

My current neurologist -- Bless his heart. I said something to him about my weight and he agreed it didn't help, but you know what this man said to me?

"But Kathy, you CAN'T exercise so there's not much you can do. The fact that you're not heavier than you are is proof you don't snack nonstop. You're doing very well, especially considering the muscle weakness you have. Don't worry about it."

One of my Primary Care doctors made a similar comment that I was doing very well just to maintain the weight I was at and as long as I didn't keep gaining, he was okay with it (considering I can't exercise at all).

They're out there -- but they're not always easy to find. But they're out there.

[DreamOn]

I now have a few "trick-in-a-bag" lines in case I need them. One is, "Excuse me, but did I miss the answer to my question in that?" And, "I'm sensing that you have a negative perception of me. Is there something I can clear up for you so that we can get past it?" And, "Doc, I don't want to waste your time or mine. Do you see my problem as one you can help me resolve?"

I may need to make up a cheat-sheet to remember those lines, or write them on my palm before I visit my doctor next time!

When I first saw my sleep doc, my weight was a "bigger" issue than it is now. She did make reference to it, but said to not worry about that yet, that we needed to get me feeling better first then deal with the weight. I could have cried.

Now, that is the way I wish all doctors would approach the "weight issue." When you're feeling like crap because you haven't had good sleep in years, it's unrealistic to think that the patient can lose the weight just like that. For one thing, our body chemistry is all messed up. The sleep apnea probably contributed to the weight gain in the first place. Many of us are already sensitive about that subject, having dealt with the stigma of being overweight. It would be much more helpful if physicians addressed that gradually, as we're actually ready/able to change. Preaching doesn't help. Compassion and support can be much more effective.