Full Face Fiasco

[maskracer]

I am a 15-month CPAP user and finally got into a groove with the Activa mask. The doctor at my sleep center suggested I try a FF mask because i was having some leaks--she said they were low enough to be tolerable but that I should TRY the FF and see if there was a marked improvement. To offer some background, in the early weeks I went through a series of nasal masks and pillows and found a serious aversion to any mask that needed to tightly fit around my head; I found that claustrophobic and I'd pull the mask off in the middle of the night, sometimes without even realizing it at the time. I finally settled on the Activa because the "floating" seal and loose straps were so comfortable and made it easy to fall asleep. I gradually began to feel better when I woke up and consider CPAP a success. Fast-forward to now, I am trying the Quattro and I find that when the mask is tight enough to avoid leaking, it's too tight. When I loosen it just enough to be comfortable, it leaks like crazy...maybe not at first, but later into the night when I shift position. I am not giving up on it just yet, but I'm not confident that it will be workable. Is there any other FF mask out there that "floats" like the Activa? Is there one that's known for comfort? I know that masks are a very individual thing, but figured I'd ask as my previous posts have generated very helpful answers.

[rosiefrosie]

My question would be why not stay with the Activa mask if it is working well for you?

rosie

[maskracer]

It's a good question - and I might just end up doing that. The doctor felt I should TRY a FF to see how much better the therapy could be. At least a couple of people I've spoken to swear that the only true CPAP therapy is with a FF mask. I'm open to anything!

[OutaSync]

I've tried many a full face mask and never found one that wouldn't stop leaking long enough for me to fall asleep. They just don't fit the contours of my face. The Activa LT hurts, but if I hold my head perfectly still it won't leak for as long as I don't move. If my head falls to the side, it pops a leak and the feel of air blowing on my cheek wakes me up. Still, it's the best mask that I have found so far.

Bev

[qjosea]

Hi, I found that the only way to get through the leak issue is to keep on trying until you get the correct fit. I remember one night I must have gotten up about three or four times. I finally got it right and my leaks have gone down quite a bit. I use the same full face mask. They are by far the best for therapy, I am also clausterfobic. I just kept on saying to myself that this is for the good of my health, now I look forward to going to sleep at night. Hope you have success, don't give up.

[JohnBFisher]

... I am trying the Quattro and I find that when the mask is tight enough to avoid leaking, it's too tight. When I loosen it just enough to be comfortable, it leaks like crazy...maybe not at first, but later into the night when I shift position. ... Is there any other FF mask out there that "floats" like the Activa? Is there one that's known for comfort? I know that masks are a very individual thing, but figured I'd ask as my previous posts have generated very helpful answers.

I use the Quattro. You are correct. In order to get a good or very good seal it must be tightened a LOT more than I would like. But without it, I tend to leak like a sieve through my mouth. And I've tried all sorts of remedies for that. None seem to work for me. So, I use a tight Quatto. I may try a Hybrid (when I get some spare time).

[mdintx]

If the only problem with the Activa is mouth leaking, it seems you'd be better off controlling that than fighting with a full face mask. Many people here, myself included, use paper tape or blue painters tape over our mouths to seal from leaks. You may want to consider giving it a try.

[akeegan]

I've tried many a full face mask and never found one that wouldn't stop leaking long enough for me to fall asleep. They just don't fit the contours of my face. The Activa LT hurts, but if I hold my head perfectly still it won't leak for as long as I don't move. If my head falls to the side, it pops a leak and the feel of air blowing on my cheek wakes me up. Still, it's the best mask that I have found so far.

Bev,

I found the Activa LT to be the best mask for me, also. I found the trick to no mask leaks (for me) was to adjust the cushion up as high on my nose as I can, so it doesn't ride on my lip. I did this by adjusting the forehead pad bracket to zero, the top straps fairly tight, and the bottom straps just tight enough not to leak. This was the trickiest part. The bottom straps have to be loose enough to let the cushion float. I had to play with it A LOT to get it right. You should be able to get two fingers between the bottom strap and your cheek. I marked the top straps with a Sharpie so I can put them back together the same way after I wash the headgear.

Al

[DoriC]

... I am trying the Quattro and I find that when the mask is tight enough to avoid leaking, it's too tight. When I loosen it just enough to be comfortable, it leaks like crazy...maybe not at first, but later into the night when I shift position. ... Is there any other FF mask out there that "floats" like the Activa? Is there one that's known for comfort? I know that masks are a very individual thing, but figured I'd ask as my previous posts have generated very helpful answers.

I use the Quattro. You are correct. In order to get a good or very good seal it must be tightened a LOT more than I would like. But without it, I tend to leak like a sieve through my mouth. And I've tried all sorts of remedies for that. None seem to work for me. So, I use a tight Quatto. I may try a Hybrid (when I get some spare time).

Have you tried the UMFF. It's become like an old broken in shoe for my husband, not too tight, not too loose, just right! At the beginning he had to wear it tight until we learned some tips for fitting it correctly for him. Whenever we get a new UM we have to go through the break-in stage again for a few nights. We just got our last one in the mail from the DME without our request after 3months and I called and told them to take us off their list and we'd call when we needed a new one. We could never get the Quattro to seal no matter what.

[roster]

It's a good question - and I might just end up doing that. The doctor felt I should TRY a FF to see how much better the therapy could be. At least a couple of people I've spoken to swear that the only true CPAP therapy is with a FF mask. I'm open to anything!

Given what you said, the only reason to try a full face mask is if you are breathing or leaking through your mouth. If you mouthbreathe with a nasal mask the pressure can be lost and you may still be having apnea. Does the doc suspect you are mouthbreathing? What data do you have?

[GaryG]

I've tried many a full face mask and never found one that wouldn't stop leaking long enough for me to fall asleep. They just don't fit the contours of my face. The Activa LT hurts, but if I hold my head perfectly still it won't leak for as long as I don't move. If my head falls to the side, it pops a leak and the feel of air blowing on my cheek wakes me up. Still, it's the best mask that I have found so far.

Bev,

I found the Activa LT to be the best mask for me, also. I found the trick to no mask leaks (for me) was to adjust the cushion up as high on my nose as I can, so it doesn't ride on my lip. I did this by adjusting the forehead pad bracket to zero, the top straps fairly tight, and the bottom straps just tight enough not to leak. This was the trickiest part. The bottom straps have to be loose enough to let the cushion float. I had to play with it A LOT to get it right. You should be able to get two fingers between the bottom strap and your cheek. I marked the top straps with a Sharpie so I can put them back together the same way after I wash the headgear.

Al

I've had a similar experience to Al. My leakage goes down when I fit the Activa LT up as high as I can. It should not hurt. Where is it hurting? I had a problem with nose getting irritated, but found that Sleep Comfort Care Pads help that for me. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/sequal ... e-pad.html

[OutaSync]

The cushion cuts across my upper lip. I have had to notch out the inner silicone so it doesn't cut the bottom of my nose while still resting on my upper lip. I guess I don't have enough space between my nose and my lip. If I tighten the bottom just enough for the cushion to make contact with my face, the pressure on my upper lip against my teeth is painful. Any looser than that and it's not touching my face when the pressure hits about 16. In other words, the cushion does not follow the contour of my face, The bottom needs to be curved, not so straight. I have ordered the softgel cushion replacement and hope that will work better.

Bev

[ifrimmel]

I leak like CRAZY anything over 15 with the Quatro. I tried the Mirage Ultra - MUCH better - great fit - crap design - fewer leaks. I KILLED it in 4 nights - broke it in 3 different places. $140 in the bin.

My second best success with FF has been with the Respironics ComfortFull 2 - it needs to be snug but nowhere near as "snug" as the Quatro. It is NOT as comfortable as the quatro or the ultra.. BUT it does seal TONS better.

Anyhow .. I am headed the other way .. I put a nasal on for the first time last night. IT'S WONDERFUL! Some painters tape and the nasal - it pushed over 14 without any leaks!! AWESOME. Pillows are next .. I suppose all of this is very subjective !

[plr66]

If the only problem with the Activa is mouth leaking, it seems you'd be better off controlling that than fighting with a full face mask. Many people here, myself included, use paper tape or blue painters tape over our mouths to seal from leaks. You may want to consider giving it a try.

I agree with mdintx. Try mouth taping with your Activa if the issue is mouthbreathing.

Just to put things in further perspective...after a full year of remarkably successful therapy with a nasal pillow mask and mouth taping, I could no longer do the taping. So I have been grieving that, and doing trials of 2 hybrids and 3 FFM's for the past 9 months. Very rocky road, including almost all of the experiences described above (too tight, too loose, wrong shape for my face, wrong angle of the pillows on the hybrid, increased leaking and AHI, etc).

After about 2 months with the Quattro, it all just came together! Did not start that way! I no longer have an imprint on my face that takes 2-3 hours to go away in the morning. I hardly know it's there when I'm going to sleep. I no longer have to be semi-conscious half the night to avoid moving too much to cause leaking. I'm amazed that it is working! One of the keys was to not wash the cushion. Honestly. See this thread:
viewtopic/t49416/WowMy-FFM-seals-better ... daily.html

So the message here is to be incredibly patient with your mask-trials, and keep tweaking various aspects of the headgear. Another suggestion, though it's not always this easy, is that some people suggest trying the ResMed Ultra Mirrage FFM if the Quattro is not right for your face. I actually am not a fan of ResMed for reasons which can be found in my history here. But just a suggestion.

[GaryG]

The cushion cuts across my upper lip. I have had to notch out the inner silicone so it doesn't cut the bottom of my nose while still resting on my upper lip. I guess I don't have enough space between my nose and my lip. If I tighten the bottom just enough for the cushion to make contact with my face, the pressure on my upper lip against my teeth is painful. Any looser than that and it's not touching my face when the pressure hits about 16. In other words, the cushion does not follow the contour of my face, The bottom needs to be curved, not so straight. I have ordered the softgel cushion replacement and hope that will work better.

Bev

Ouch. Tried anything like putting moleskin on the cushion? I see, so its not like its too low on your face, cos you can't move it up. Bummer. Bottom wasn't meant to be tight, only the top. Hope the softgel cushion works.