Is there anyone like me here??

[Ogre]

I’m going to try and make this as brief as I can but I have been known to be long winded so I apologize in advance. There is a question or questions at the end though.
I’ll be 40 years old in a couple weeks and as best as I can tell I’ve had sleep apnea since I was at least 17 years old. I say that because I’ve been told for forever that I shake the walls when I snore. Everyone has complained after the first night of sleeping anywhere within 100 feet of where I’m sleeping. I never knew about sleep apnea until about 5 years ago. My girlfriend, an RN, and I have discussed it many times because I would scare her to death during the night when I would stop breathing and she would prepare to start CPR. At the time I was a heavy drinker which didn’t help matters much either. She had wanted me to have a sleep study done but I had always put it off. The reason being that my knowledge of sleep apnea was that you just don’t get enough sleep and me being a tough, hard working guy I always felt that for one, who isn’t tired most days and I’ll just deal with it. No big deal.
I had some dealings with depression about 4-5 years ago and started taking Prozac which lead to losing my desire to drink, which was great but I was having anxiety attacks and I just wasn’t myself. I didn’t care to hang out with friends and it got to the point where the times when my girlfriend and her 3 kids weren’t around were what I looked forward to. I rarely moved from my recliner and was not working because I just couldn’t handle it anymore. I would be a bump on a log and most times fell asleep in that recliner everynight around 7-8pm, after having an hour or two nap in the afternoon. I’d be wide awake at 4 or 5, sometimes 2 or 3 am, in the morning and heading for the coffee pot. I was just miserable and didn’t know what to do and didn’t care to talk to anyone about it mainly because I just really couldn’t stand to be around many people for very long. I just wanted to be left alone.
In February of this year my girlfriend of 7 years told me she couldn’t do it anymore and I had to leave. Within a week I had checked myself into a local hospital for depression and because I had given up. The next day I met with the shrink and after blubbering about my life story to him his first question to me was if I snored. I told him yes and he asked if I ever had a sleep study. I said no and he explained that he felt my depression may be caused by sleep apnea. I had heard of sleep apnea but never knew it could do that. He started going into other details about what sleep apnea could do and it read like my life. So that night they hooked me up to an oximeter and the next morning I felt as though I had slept better than I had in years and I was sure he would come in and tell me that it wasn’t the problem. Instead he came in and tossed me my report and said that I did indeed have sleep apnea. 46.7 events/hour, 321 events, 5 of which were over 3 minutes. I know there is no way I could hold my breath for 3 minutes so I was shocked. Spo2 at a low of 73. So we decided I would get a referal for a sleep study.
Not having I job, I don’t have insurance. The state I live in has a program, like most states do, where I could get insurance for free but had to see doctors in a specific hospital. After a bunch of red tape, about 6 months worth, I finally had my sleep study. I’m sorry I can’t recall the numbers off the top of my head, but I had a hard time getting to sleep and only slept about 4 hours that night. It was determined that I had sleep apnea for sure and that I would come back a week later for a night with the CPAP. Went in for that and the next morning I woke up with no headache and clear sinuses. And it was weird because I hadn’t realized that for at least 22 years I had been waking up with a headache, which couldn’t have been more obvious the next night at home without a CPAP and woke up feeling so horrible.
Again I had issues falling asleep and only slept for about 4 hours but the sleep tech thought she had found a good pressure for me, a setting of 9 with a full face mask. My next step was finding a machine. That was a little tough with no insurance but eventually found one on Craigslist for $100. Remstar Pro with C-Flex. The owner had had it for about 6 months and was going to move to a Bipap because the Remstar didn’t have enough pressure for her. I bought a mask and humidifier and got ready for the best sleep of my life. It went ok for the first week, no headaches, didn’t mind the mask. Was seeing improvments with small things but hadn’t gotten a huge energy boost that I was looking for. Then started having issues with rainout, got those solved thanks to this forum and then started having issues of waking up with no mask on and fixed that, again thanks to you guys here at the forum. Now, about 2 months into it I feel like I’m slipping backwards. Wearing the mask all night and not having leaks that I know of I’ve started waking up with headaches again and my girlfriend, who by the way took me back after the diagnosis of sleep apnea and not me just being a nut and I can’t thank her enough for that, she started saying that I have started to snore again, not bad like I used to but enough for her to hear.
I bought some software to see if I could figure out what was going on and then after a trip to the chatroom here on Monday night I was told that unfortunately my machine wouldn’t give me the info I needed. So I’m in the process of saving for a new machine that will and until then will try and trudge my way through.
My question would be this. How will I know what a good night sleep is? I can’t recall what it must be like because it has been so long. Will I really feel that much different? Will I start to become more sociable? Are there any of you who had depression that has gotten better if not gone since CPAP? I feel my relationship is suffering still and I ache to make things better for my loving girlfriend who has dealt with more than any person ever should and she deserves a decent man that will be new to both of us.

[sleepycarol]

For some, like me it took a very long time to start feeling less tired and cranky. I think I probably had sleep apnea for a long time, before it was actually diagnosed. It was funny since none of the doctors I saw ever suggested a sleep study for extreme fatigue and and other symptoms I was experiencing. It took well over a year of constant use to feel semi-normal.

It was a gradual climb out of the deep pit I was in. Know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Keep at it. Don't give up. Know your body didn't get this sleep starved overnight and with each night on the machine your that much closer to having energy and pep.

[Muse-Inc]

Ah, Ogre, IMHO you're on the right path! Just keep on keeping on. Sounds like you might be losing therapy air somewhere...mask or mouth take your pick and see what you can do to improve. I had a dumb CPAP and hated it when I started having challenges...no way to optimize my therapy, so I'm with ya there in frustration. Might investigate and see if there might be some help in getting a data-capable machine via a local hospital or sleep lab, call and ask. Check out national organizations too, list of 'em at National Sleep Alliance (a mfg group).

Depression responds well to either or fish oil and supplements of vitamin D3 (not D2). Dark chocolate also helps, contains PEA (short for some looooong chemical) that is a mood booster, plus its phenols help heal.

[kteague]

One day you will stop feeling like you fit your name. My once rock steady temperment had turned into rocky. It was beyond being grouchy. It was disproportionate responses (anger or tears) to things that normally wouldn't phase me. That phase gave way to what I can only describe as pre-dead. I was of no use to myself or anyone else. Optimizing my cpap treatment was the beginning of finding myself again. Early on, my cpap treatment was not therapeutic and I did not improve. Finding my way here and getting a data capable machine gave me the tools and info I needed to make this thing work for me - it was do or die. That was over 3 years ago.

Do get that upgraded machine you spoke of as soon as possible. (The machine you have is not the M-Series Pro by any chance is it?) It's not unusual for our titrated pressure to need tweaked, as our sleep in the lab is not always reflective of our normal sleep in our own familiar bed. Until you can figure this all out, sleeping with the head of the bed a little elevated and staying off your back could help the current pressure be effective. Best wishes in getting your life back and being who you desire to be to yourself and to those you care about.

Kathy

[jweeks]

Now, about 2 months into it I feel like I’m slipping backwards. Wearing the mask all night and not having leaks that I know of I’ve started waking up with headaches again and my girlfriend, who by the way took me back after the diagnosis of sleep apnea and not me just being a nut and I can’t thank her enough for that, she started saying that I have started to snore again, not bad like I used to but enough for her to hear.

Ogre,

It might be that your body adapted slightly to the CPAP, and now needs just a tiny bit more pressure. That happened to me...about 6 weeks in, I started to snore again. I bumped up my pressure by 1 unit, and I have no more snores. I cannot suggest that you do this, but in my case, it worked pretty well. Maybe move it up by 1 unit, let it sit for a few days, and if that doesn't do the trick, move it up again.

Your sleeping position can also have a big impact. Some fraction of the OSA population need much more pressure when sleeping on their back. Maybe see if you can sleep exclusively on your side for a few nights, and see if that helps. Try one side, then the other.

-john-

[xiola]

The next day I met with the shrink and after blubbering about my life story to him his first question to me was if I snored. I told him yes and he asked if I ever had a sleep study. I said no and he explained that he felt my depression may be caused by sleep apnea.

this is exactly what i went through about 3 weeks ago. I went to see a psychiatist, wanted something for depression & anxiety, have had issues with both for years.

He asked me almost immediately if I snored, was tired a lot, had problems concentrating, etc. Got into a sleep study the very next night, etc..

but the point is, yep. there are people here just like you

[DaveMunson]

In one way, we are all like you. I also recommend trying higher pressure and evaluating the results.

[tillymarigold]

My case isn't as severe as yours, but I was diagnosed at 28 after having had symptoms since I was 11 and I was also mis-diagnosed with dysthymia (chronic low grade depression) and was on Wellbutrin for awhile. Unfortunately (for me) I don't snore, since a lot of doctors don't realize that you can have apnea without snoring.

When I finally caught up on my sleep debt I didn't feel that much better because I was so out of shape from having been to exhausted to do anything for so long. I can tell you that the major difference was that I started feeling like I wanted to do something about it. Like I could tell that I *could* feel better even though I didn't yet; whereas before CPAP I just thought that how exhausted I was, was just the way things are. Definitely try adjusting your pressure ... always give your new pressure at least a week or two before you decide it didn't work (so says my sleep doc).

By the way I got diagnosed because I was yelling at my new primary doctor because she had just told me that I would feel better if I exercised more, and I said "People have been saying that my whole life, and it's just not true! Everyone says you get more energy from exercising, and I think everyone is lying! Every time I exercise I just get more and more tired every time I do it until I end up twisting something or pulling something and have to stop for awhile!" It turns out that's a classic red flag for sleep disorders--it's caused by the body not properly clearing out lactic acid from the muscles during sleep.

[Ogre]

Monday in the Chat room I talked with Jeeper, Airhead, and Tom, sorry I can't remember your last name Tom. They all gave me good advice like what I'm getting from all of you. They said I should pump up the pressure half a click and try it for a week as well as turn off the C-Flex. I tried both and immediatly had to turn the C-flex back on to 1 otherwise I just couldn't do it. May try it again once I get used to the lower setting. The half a point in pressure hasn't made a noticable change yet but I'm patient. When I first was diagnosed I started exercising because I knew it might take a little bit to get in for my sleep study. I started walking and soon was up to 3 miles a day. I started biking, something I used to do a lot back in my earlier days, and got up to an average of 5 miles a day. But it took so long for them to see me that I just couldn't keep up with it anymore and the depression kicked back in and I've been back to my favorite recliner.
I may try and see if I can find an organization who can help me with a machine. I know there is a church near here who has such a program. When I told my girlfriend I was looking to add software to my machine, which is an M series by the way someone asked, and she felt it might not make any difference in how things are, that I won't get any better info than what I know already and that I should go see my neuro doc. Which I plan on going to him but I imagine if I don't have any data that he isn't going to know what to say than anyone else. Plus I've been on this forum long enough and read plenty of posts that it seems like the next logical step is to get the data and figure it out. If I didn't know about this forum and all of you knowledgable people here I would be lost for sure. So thank you all for your advice. And keep it coming, if you've got it I'll hear it.

[deadhead77]

Hi
I would just add that it is important to keep a sense of proportion to your expectations from your treatment.

It took osa years of gradual gnawing at your unique personal mind and body health makeup to get you where you now are. If you had to imagine what not sleeping for years would do to you what would you say you would feel like, what would be the effects.
'Depression' would be the least of it.

'Disgust' at your perceived constant hypochondria and inability to 'pull yourself together'

'Isolation' Too tired to enjoy life like others and lost interest anyway.

You finish your own list.

I don't expect to be back on my feet for years, I have to see all the personality warping that long term osa brings unravel. I have to work at, but wait for my unique body health to gradually improve too.

Cpap/apap may get you sleeping properly almost instantly but you have to be honest with your inner self, it is only a 'ladder' resting against a well of symptoms and effects that you must climb to get out of that black hole.

Be thankful that you know what is wrong now and that YOU have control. Take your time, shrug off the negative for what it is and stop buggering about with stuff that won't help you enjoy getting better. It's all yours Ogre, the mind, the body, the life, the chance to love and be happy...

Fancy having some awful cancer...

Fancy having to have someone take care of you and your personal dignity...

Do you realize how lucky we all are mate

I went to a beautiful Forrest in west wales in the UK. My camper van had a waste hose that fitted the exhaust pipe. I emptied all the waste water out the system and fitted the pipe to the exhaust. The van had a shower,a basin in the bath area and a sink. I took the plugs out of all three. I closed the curtains. I opened a bottle of Highland park. I sat there for a while looking back, dark, sipping whisky...


Yes, that close.

And you think you waffle on

One day we all have to look back on how we dealt with life, beating osa and putting yourself right is something to be proud of I think.

Make it so number one!

Steve.

[Ogre]

I agree with you all. It took me 22 years to get to the place I am today. And I know it won't be fixed overnight, just getting a little nervous that nothing will change. I also wonder how I'll know that what I feel or percieve is where I should be. I used to think I slept ok and I thought what I considered a good nights sleep was equal to what "normal" people called a good nights sleep. I suppose when I do experience it that I will know it, just tough waiting for it.
And I was pretty close to the hose in the car, I was going for the closed garage though. I worried that someone else may be hurt by it so I settled on a plastic bag and a rubber band and was 2 days away from the planned day when I got help. So I consider myself very lucky that I have a sickness that even though it almost lead me to death it is something that even if I can't cure it I can at the very least make the symptoms at least bearable. I feel for those who have other sickness or disease that don't have the options that I do.
And I wish more people were aware of sleep apnea and its' effects. Knowing what I know now I have to consider that it helped shorten the lives of at least a few relatives of mine, one being a 52 year old uncle from heart attack. I know I do my best to help educate as many of my family and friends with the little knowledge I have.

[Muse-Inc]

...doctor...told me that I would feel better if I exercised more, and I said "People have been saying that my whole life, and it's just not true! Everyone says you get more energy from exercising, and I think everyone is lying! Every time I exercise I just get more and more tired every time I do it until I end up twisting something or pulling something and have to stop for awhile!" It turns out that's a classic red flag for sleep disorders--it's caused by the body not properly clearing out lactic acid from the muscles during sleep.

My experience re exercise dovetails...all it ever has been is exhausting...took me 9 months on CPAP before I had sufficient energy to do more than a few mins on my exercise bike feeling even more exhausted. Since then (May08), I have found that I am a slow long low-intensity exerciser so I don't do fast short high-intensity exercise like I used to try. Because I've always hated exercise & the way it make me feel, the least amt of time doing it (wasting time far I was concerned) was most acceptable...wrong for me, long slow sessions work. Think I oughta have learned that when I was lap swimming slow laps....ah well. Hafta admit I always short-changed myself on sleep...there was just so much more interesting stuff to do than sleep and it's only been fairly recently that the negative consequences of that bad habit have been understood. Now, I make time for sleep...'course being unemployed makes that pretty easy .

[carbonman]

I started biking, something I used to do a lot back in my earlier days, and got up to an average of 5 miles a day. I've been back to my favorite recliner.

Nothing better for depression than get'n all jacked up on blue Gatoraid
and endorphins. I do it 4-5 times a week, on a bike.

Actions kill fear.

Get out of the recliner and back on the bike.

'nough said.

[fishhead]

Get out of the recliner and back on the bike.

'nough said.

i couldn't agree more!

try to do something, even when you don't feel like it or are not even enjoying it. it's a little bit like when you have a cold, or flu, and just have no appetite. you try to eat a little something anyway, even if you don' enjoy it or are not able to keep it down. but you do it because you know it's good for you and it will keep you going until things turn around again and you start enjoying it again. at the very least it keeps you in the habit.

sounds like your doing great!
keep it up, just be patient.

[Ogre]

Carbonman, I used to ride RAGBRAI, not sure if you know what that is. I would usually only do about half the day before I'd put the bike on the bus and go to the overnight though. I ride a recumbent most of the time, I guess it's because it's a lot like my recliner. This time of year is a little rough to ride where I am but I have been planning to join a gym, just sort of been waiting for a boost. I got into walking after my diagnosis because I think I got a boost from knowing I was alive and could fix what was wrong and I was going to have to wait to get in for a sleep study and I knew it wasn't going to hurt anything by at least starting to lose some weight. But I guess the main point is I should probably quit waiting for the energy and at least do something. If anything to just get back on the right track.