ZZZ - Mask review - first night

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DreamDiver
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ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by DreamDiver » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:28 pm

I just bought the ProBasics ZZZ-Mask from PMI. Last night, I tried it out.
I think this mask is one of the more successful full face masks.
Let me give a rundown as to why I think it is superior to the others I've tried:

Pros:

1. Exhaust flow rate (EFR): For a pressure of 11.5, it should be somewhere between 30 and 35.
Image
My 95% leak rate averaged about 41, but was closer to 35 for the first half of the night. The EFR on my UMFF is about 50 for the same pressure. That higher leak rate seems to mean slower response times by the machine when it comes to air pressure regulation. That lag in response causes a considerable amount of aerophagia for me in any position except when I'm on my back when using the UMFF. I sleep in a lot of different positions, so the aerophagia tends to wake me up as much as any apnea or hypopnea might. I did not experience any aerophagia with the lower EFR on the zzz-mask, apparently because the machine can respond more quickly if there isn't as high a leak to guage pressure relief against. I was able to sleep in any position without experiencing aerophagia with the ZZZ.

2. The mask is mostly silicone with a rigid frame that's only a very thin brace to keep it from expanding too widely. Here's a picture of the mask with all it's pieces separated, sans strap:
Image
Here's the frame close up in my hand - it looks very fragile. Hopefully it will stand up to my tossing and turning:
Image

That means the whole mask is entirely flexible:
Image
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3. The pillow part of the mask that sits against your face is not polished, but instead has a matte texture that seems to help keep the mask from slipping around as much when you sweat.

4. The nose bridge, along with the rest of the silicone gradually gets thicker the further you get from the edge of the pillow. The end result is that instead of having a thin bit of silicone bumping against a rigid plastic frame, you get more resistance directed into the silicone itself, spreading out the touch spot over a wider area on the nose bridge. Force against the bridge is more evenly distributed, alleviating the sense of pinching on the nose bridge.
Image

5. You can wear glasses with this mask.

6. The upper plastic struts of the frame end up keeping most of the straps off your cheeks. They also evenly distribute the force of the straps pretty well across the face.

Cons:

1. The straps on either side of the frame act a little like horse blinders to your lower peripheral field of vision. You end up looking through the plastic struts that hold the straps.
Image

2. Just like the other masks, after I get up at four am for a restroom break, it doesn't seem to fit as well, and I end up with a little more leakage from the sides and around the mouth.

Overview:
The cpap.com measurement tool suggested I should buy a medium, but the zzz downloadable pdf gave me an impression that I'd be better off with a large.

Of all the masks I've looked at or tried, this one seems to come closest to ideal. The straps had to be cinched very tight in order to stop the leakage around the mouth - something that seems typical for all full-face masks - but it was achievable, and didn't leave me with a headache at the end of the night. I used a pap-cap to prevent mask torque and keep my mouth closed, but I suspect this mask could be worn without a pap-cap and you still would have pretty low mask torque if you don't have trouble keeping your mouth closed.

This mask cradles the nose and the nose bridge better than any other mask I've tried. However, I wish they'd make a mask that curved around the cheeks near the edges of the lips better.

I've only had one night using the mask, but so far, I'm glad to have purchased it. In a week or so, I'll come back with a fuller assessment. To see more images, go here: http://www.montfordhouse.com/images/cpa ... slideshow/

I don't know if this will help someone else, but hopefully, it will give others a good idea of what it's like to wear the mask.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions
Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF

steveeas
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by steveeas » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:40 pm

Nice photos.

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GaryG
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by GaryG » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:19 pm

DD, sounds like you're a kid in a candy store. Hope you have good luck with it.

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Kiralynx
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Kiralynx » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:43 pm

DD,

Nice review. Where did you find the leak rate chart for this mask?

<g> I cheated -- I used a CL2 strap with the mask, and by changing the angle of the pull on the mask, I eliminated a leakage around the mouth.

O'course, I still had higher than usual leakage, 'cause I was coughing my head off, but....

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software, not listed. Currently using Dreamstation ASV, not listed
-- Kiralynx
Beastie, 2008-10-28. NEW Beastie, PRS1 960, 2014-05-14. NEWER Beastie, Dream Station ASV, 2017-10-17. PadaCheek Hosecover. Homemade Brandy Keg Chin Support. TapPap Mask.
Min PS = 4, Max PS = 8
Epap Range = 6 - 7.5

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Slinky
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Slinky » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:29 am

I fell in LOVE w/the ProBasics Zzz-Mask the first night I used it! I've NEVER fallen in love the first night even w/my now beloved Simplicity simple nasal cushion. HOWEVER, I find the headgear for the Zzz-Mask to be .... chintzy, cheap. It stretches out too easily over successive nights of use. And for those w/smaller heads the headgear is WAY TOO LARGE. (I ran into that w/the Simplicity as well, however, the Simplicity headgear was simple to figure out a "fix" for the size). IF ProBasics would use a better quality material for the headgear that in itself would be a big help. Yes, we want some stretch to work with but NOT the amount of stretch in the Zzz-Mask headgear. It is excessive and doesn't hold its "shape" from night to night, just keeps getting looser and looser over 3-4 nights. I've also found that the lower mouth area of the mask really does need to be a skosh wider for its length than it is. I use the Small, but the Medium would be too long IF it even is wider at the mouth (I don't know that it is). And I HATE the chintzy strap clips! I find them difficult to use and don't have much faith in how long they are going to last. Obviously, ProBasics is aware of this since they provide an extra set w/the mask.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
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DreamDiver
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by DreamDiver » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:54 pm

Slinky wrote:I fell in LOVE w/the ProBasics Zzz-Mask the first night I used it!...
Slinky,
I concur with everything you said, and I've been through only two nights. The strap is crummy. On both nights so far, I've had to adjust the straps tighter throughout the night at least twice a night. It's gotten to the point that they almost meet at the back now. If it continues at that rate, the strap will be useless by tomorrow morning. I'd thought about cinching the strap shorter with a couple quick stitches from the sewing machine, but now, I might just ditch the strap altogether and go straight to the papcap strapping system to see if that makes a difference. I bought the large zzz. The whole thing fits my face very well, except - like you - I've found that the area around the mouth also should be wider. It's not too long - just not wide enough. Why is it that all FF masks seem to be that way? There should also be some curve toward the face on the outer edge of the cushion around the mouth. If you pucker your lips, suck in your cheeks or smile, air escapes. The mask does not hug the face so much as you end up having use a modified 'chipmunk cheeks' position to keep area from escaping around the to ends of the lips. It dries out my mouth a bit. I'll try the papcap solution tonight.

The mask itself is really well designed though. The silicone is thick enough that instead of being able to buy an extra cushion it might be better to be able to buy an extra frame if the hard plastic breaks. I think an extra frame should come with the mask.

I agree that the clips seem flimsy, but I'm more concerned about the part it clips to. There's a lot of force applied to those little struts and bolts. How long can that last?

I think others have tried straps from other masks. If anyone is willing to share a strap suggestion that works well, I'd love to hear it.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions
Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF

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Slinky
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Slinky » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:14 pm

I thought KiraLynx posted the URL w/pics of her CL2 straps "fix" for the Zzz-Mask, but darned if I can find it! I had an old CL2 and I might be able to get it back from the guy I gave it to.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.

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Demeter_Soul
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Demeter_Soul » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:17 pm

I bought a Zzz mask via the auction site and use it as a back-up mask or for taking naps.
Out of the twelve masks I've tried I like this one second only to the Hybrid, which is my primary mask.

I would like the Zzz a lot more if it were just a wee bit longer...and if I didn't get twin leaks right on top of the nose, at the inner corners of my eyes.
No matter how much I tighten the mask...those eye leaks are there when I turn my head...and they get worse as the night progresses and my facial oils are more abundant.
Also...I bought the medium and it just seems to short. The bottom hits right under my lip and it bothers me a good bit and it's easy for me to get a leak if my mouth falls open too much.

I guess it seems like I have a lot of complaints about the mask. Well...maybe I do have a few...but other than the Hybrid...it's the only mask I can wear for more than a few hours which doesn't tear the bridge of my nose up...or dig into other parts of my face.
I do think it's a good mask for the money. A really, really good mask.

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Slinky
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Slinky » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:28 pm

I've found for eye leaks the top straps should be looser and the bottom straps tighter altho that sounds backwards.
I've also found that starting the mask a skosh lower on the nose and then when the fit is good sliding it up the nose that skosh to its proper place helps alleviate eye leaks.
And, running your fingertip along the seam line between cushion and face also eliminates those minor leaks.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.

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Slinky
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Slinky » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:09 am

Last night looks like I may have found the headgear fix that will work for me. I put one sided velcro strips along the headgear straps to reduce their stretch. I didn't cover the entire straps w/velcro as we do need SOME stretch. Leak data looked good this morning. O.0, 6.0 and 18.0 which allowing for the non-Resmed mask would be a leak rate of 24, 30 and 42 L/M. Certainly way better than w/the continuous stretching of the headgear. And considerably better than w/the Quattro. BUT - that still leaves the corner of the mouth leaks.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.

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Kiralynx
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Kiralynx » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:25 pm

Slinky wrote:I thought KiraLynx posted the URL w/pics of her CL2 straps "fix" for the Zzz-Mask, but darned if I can find it! I had an old CL2 and I might be able to get it back from the guy I gave it to.
Slinky,

Never got any pictures taken. But what I did was attach the upper part of the CL2 V strap (it would be the back, attached to the CL2) to the Zzz-mask. Then I put the quick release clips onto the lower part of the CL2 (this would be the part that attaches to the front of the CL2) and clipped them on.

The CL2 strap ends up at the base of my neck, and the slight downward tug of the way this works eliminates, for me, the flatulent noises from the leaks around my mouth.

I have to get a newer camera so I can upload pictures easier....

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software, not listed. Currently using Dreamstation ASV, not listed
-- Kiralynx
Beastie, 2008-10-28. NEW Beastie, PRS1 960, 2014-05-14. NEWER Beastie, Dream Station ASV, 2017-10-17. PadaCheek Hosecover. Homemade Brandy Keg Chin Support. TapPap Mask.
Min PS = 4, Max PS = 8
Epap Range = 6 - 7.5

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Slinky
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Re: ZZZ - Mask review - first night

Post by Slinky » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:58 am

Thank you, KiraLynx.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.