BMI

[roster]

Maybe that is science.

I believe our culture would consider a person of "Normal" BMI to be "too thin" and a person of "Overweight" or "Obese" BMI to be "healthy weight".

Calculator: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bminojs.htm

[MoneyGal]

A particular area of interest for me.

Take a look at this slideshow for some illustrations of what BMI categories look like on "real" (quote-unquote, eh?) people. (Make it full screen!) It is really interesting to see the categories applied to actual human beings.

Also, the wikipedia entry on BMI is fascinating. If you read the part on professional football players (under "limitations and shortcomings"), note the mention of sleep apnea. (Actually, the whole "limitations and shortcomings" section is fascinating to me.)

[Rustyolddude]

This is probably the calculator & method that .gov is going to use to assess the new "fat tax". Only way you'll be able to avoid the tax is if you look like an anorexic.

[roster]

A particular area of interest for me.

Take a look at this slideshow for some illustrations of what BMI categories look like on "real" (quote-unquote, eh?) people. (Make it full screen!) It is really interesting to see the categories applied to actual human beings.

Also, the wikipedia entry on BMI is fascinating. If you read the part on professional football players (under "limitations and shortcomings"), note the mention of sleep apnea. (Actually, the whole "limitations and shortcomings" section is fascinating to me.)

It seems science is heading toward "fatty livers". No matter what your BMI is, it is the fat around your liver that is very dangerous to your health. My BMI was 25 (barely overweight) but the doc told me he could look at my round belly and know with a high degree of certainty that I had too much fat around my liver.

Most people who have a BMI of 25 or higher have excess fat around their liver. There are some exceptions, such as athletes and bodybuilders, but they are a small percentage of the population. Our society eats too many "empty" carbs.

I don't get the point of Kate Harding's slideshow. I bet 90+% of the people in the slides with BMI of 25 and higher, have unhealthy amounts of fat around their livers.

[MoneyGal]

Hmmm. Well, I thought it was making exactly the same point as you were making in your first post, that what "we" evaluate as overweight / normal / obese probably does not overlap with the BMI definitions, as our perceptions are likely shifted to the right (i.e., normal appears "thin," overweight appears "normal," etc.).

I thought about including a disclaimer like "just watch the slideshow and look past [whatever] the political agenda [is]", but didn't. I don't get the point of the slideshow either, I just thought it was interesting.

[freepostg]

A particular area of interest for me.

Take a look at this slideshow for some illustrations of what BMI categories look like on "real" (quote-unquote, eh?) people. (Make it full screen!) It is really interesting to see the categories applied to actual human beings.

Also, the wikipedia entry on BMI is fascinating. If you read the part on professional football players (under "limitations and shortcomings"), note the mention of sleep apnea. (Actually, the whole "limitations and shortcomings" section is fascinating to me.)

It seems science is heading toward "fatty livers". No matter what your BMI is, it is the fat around your liver that is very dangerous to your health. My BMI was 25 (barely overweight) but the doc told me he could look at my round belly and know with a high degree of certainty that I had too much fat around my liver.

Most people who have a BMI of 25 or higher have excess fat around their liver. There are some exceptions, such as athletes and bodybuilders, but they are a small percentage of the population. Our society eats too many "empty" carbs.

I don't get the point of Kate Harding's slideshow. I bet 90+% of the people in the slides with BMI of 25 and higher, have unhealthy amounts of fat around their livers.

Does this mean that I'm going to have to cut down on my weekend scotch intake?

[Terminator]

Fat around the liver.... I guess that means I'm going to die someday:-)

[MoneyGal]

The wikipedia entry on "body volume index" (an alternative to the BMI) has a graphic showing women with the same weight, but very different body composition. Check it out!

[BlackSpinner]

Fat is fat. Back in the seventies I was part of study using the skin pinch tests. Even though I was 105 lbs at 5'3" (38-23-36) I was considered "fat" because I had no muscle I was basically bones with fatty tissue. At that point I started working out - I didn't lose weight - in fact I gained some but I lost fat (expect for all those pounds up front in that DD cup) gained endurance and better posture.
But don't fool your self - most of those people in that slide show were over weight and should be doing something about it. Go and find some old Life magazines from the 40's & 50's and look at the crowds.
And note that when I took that test in the early 70's I was considered a size 9 - that would be a size 4 or less now.

[roster]

..........
But don't fool your self - most of those people in that slide show were over weight and should be doing something about it. Go and find some old Life magazines from the 40's & 50's and look at the crowds.
...........

That is really my point. If I look at my great aunts, great uncles, and great grandparents, as adults, they were almost all what we would consider "skinny" today. If I compare the photos in my high school yearbook with the photos in my kids' high school yearbooks you see what the statistics tell us. The population has gotten much fatter.

But we are so used to seeing it that we now consider it normal. The church I go to has a high population of people over 55. My goodness the amount of obesity and morbid obesity is frightening. If I take out an old directory from 25 years back and look at many of these same people, they were so slim you can hardly recognize them. The change is very unhealthy!

What's the solution guys?

[MoneyGal]

The 60-90 minutes of moderately intense exercise per day recommended by the US Government is a start. The "empty calories" issue is the other big chunk.

But I give people some slack, sometimes a lot of slack, in that they may be dealing with undiagnosed medical issues, such as OSA.

How many people actually get 60 - 90 minutes of moderately intense exercise per day?

[sifr]

Frankly, I think the BMI is a load of crap.

If I were the weight for the "ideal" BMI for my height (185 lbs), I'd be at less than 5% bodyfat. That's both unsustainable and unhealthy, as any doctor would tell you.

Nobody who looks at me thinks, "wow, he's obese". But according to the BMI, I am.

Doctors who test me don't think I'm obese, and my vitals certainly aren't those of an obsese person. Yet, the BMI claims I am.


The BMI is unrealistic. What IS realistic is a measure of one's lean body mass, and maintaining a sane bodyfat percentage. LBM is determined via hydrostatic (immersion) testing, not simple math and a chart.


Oh, and I do get 60-90 minutes of moderate to intense exercise each day. I don't eat processed foods, refined sugar or flour.

[Muse-Inc]

What's the solution?...

I used to be skinny...back in the dark ages . I gained from BC pills, stress eating, chronic short sleep...no amt of yoga, stress mgmt, yogic breathing, or meditation, changed that a bit. I have always hated exercise as all it did was exhaust me...never tried long, slow, low-intensity sessions until a yr or so and found that works for me, so I do 35-65 mins/day on my recumbent bike. I eat very low carb as that works for me. Getting on CPAP has helped restore enough energy to enable exercise, 125 mgs of grape seed extract cuts my appetite to ziltch so managing eating is a whole lot easier. I did Atkins back in the early 70s and then fell for the govt line that low-fat high carb eating was best and stopped low carb eating...bad decision.

If I'd know the dangers of excess & synthetic estrogens, the dangers of shorting myself of sleep every night, the repercussions of long-term low-grade stress, and the possiblity of apnea from excess abdominal fat, then I would never have continued that lifestyle -- but that info was only available years after the 'damage' had been done. Now I exercise, eat better, and do what I can about the stress of being unemployed in the current job market (and unable to buy a data-capable xPAP ).

I've become somewhat of a SDB zealot and sell the benefits of getting checked out to anyone who complains of symptoms that might be SDB. My family and friends just wander off or shake their heads when I get started, but I've convinced some people to get tested and some to get relatives to get tested. Now I'm adding this forum

The solution? Education for those who are willing to learn.

[cinco777]

Rooster wrote

That is really my point. If I look at my great aunts, great uncles, and great grandparents, as adults, they were almost all what we would consider "skinny" today. If I compare the photos in my high school yearbook with the photos in my kids' high school yearbooks you see what the statistics tell us. The population has gotten much fatter.

But we are so used to seeing it that we now consider it normal. The church I go to has a high population of people over 55. My goodness the amount of obesity and morbid obesity is frightening. If I take out an old directory from 25 years back and look at many of these same people, they were so slim you can hardly recognize them. The change is very unhealthy!

I am seeing the same changes in people that I have known for years. It happened so gradually for/to them that they are very accepting of their new "rounded" bodies. They no longer do the outdoor activities that we used to do together as families when our kids were growing up. No more camping, hiking, skiing, walking around the neighborhood just for the fun of it, not much at all. Some still have active kids, but the kids do the active lifestyle things by themselves and with friends. I'm past 65 and still ski with my youngest, age 25. She likes the Mom&Dad "paid vacations" now and then as they don't impact her saving for vacations and outings with friends. All our family friends quit skiing in their 50s so we now go by ourselves. My friends and even some of my relatives tell me that I am thin because of good genes. I don't think so. I stay thin because I am active and, if I see myself gaining weight, I cut back on the eating until I return to my normal weight. I tell them that I can't afford a new wardrobe - I can still wear my ski clothes from 30 years ago.

[Kiralynx]

My goodness the amount of obesity and morbid obesity is frightening. If I take out an old directory from 25 years back and look at many of these same people, they were so slim you can hardly recognize them. The change is very unhealthy!

What's the solution guys?

Well, for openers, maybe eliminating the "eating fat is wrong." They've been subbing carbs for healthy fats for what? 50-60 years. And how long has there been an obesity epidemic? 50-60 years!

Next, let the fat-prejudiced get it through their thick skulls (notice a standard perjorative is "fathead"?) that not everyone who is fat is stupid, uneducated, and lazy.

Third: outlaw all food advertising, on TV, on the radio, in magazines, newspapers, and on billboards.

Fourth: require the production of healthy food. That means real meats, not injected with high fructose corn syrup and modified food starch. It means vegetables not served with dips made of modified celluose gum, and carrageenan. It means fresh fruits, and full-fat dairy, and free-range eggs. Sixty years ago, fast food was virtually nonexistent. It should be again.

Fifth: make it POSSIBLE for people to do exercise. I used to work at a book store four miles from my home. No big deal to ride a bicycle to and from... if there'd been a bike path. Same thing for getting to the grocery store: no bike path. And d@mn dangerous the way people drive around here. If there are physical issues -- make sure they are given water therapy, and FREE access to the facilities.

And finally, society can just get it through its thick skull that human beings come in lots of sizes and shapes, and that fat prejudice is as unacceptable as racial or ethnic slurs, or religious discrimination, or gender discrimination or... or... or...!