Encore Pro Math

[Arizona-Willie]

Trying out an M Series with A-flex and today my numbers were the worst so far ... still not bad but caused me to look closer.

I cant' figure out how they come up with the numbers they get for AHI etc.

As I understand it the index = number of apneas ( hypopneas )/ number of hours

But when I check the numbers on the chart I have below they don't work out like that.
In order to get an AHI of 4.3 I would have had to have twice the apneas / hypopneas shown.

I checked the individual apnea and hypopnea index on the chart and they just don't work out according to the above formula.

However, previous days do. Strangely only last night's numbers seem to have come from a stoned accountant.

When I magnify the chart in Encore Pro and count the apneas and hypopneas manually, I get 10 apneas and 12 hypopneas.

In order to make the indexes match what EP shows I would have had to have slept only 4 1/2 hours instead of 6 hours and 58 minutes.

Im sure my thinking has gone awry somewhere but I wondered if anyone else has ever noticed indexes gone crazy.

Perhaps someone can point me to the error in my thinking / calculations.

All advice appreciated.

http://www.members.cox.net/azwillie/Encore_math.png

[jules]

you have several "repeated" events in a short period of time - double - triple - you need to consider the width of the tick marks too -

[Wulfman]

If you can get James Skinner's Encore Pro Analyzer, it'll tell you how many there were and how long they were in duration.
I've also had events that never showed up as "tic" marks on the reports, too.

Den

[rested gal]

If you want to drop the AHI, I'd try raising the minimum pressure to 10 or 11. With A-flex on, I'll bet that a higher minimum pressure will still be very easy to exhale against.

[BeanMeScot]

I don't understand the difference between A Flex and C Flex. What makes one better than the other for your particular needs?

[Arizona-Willie]

beammescot, I'm not sure if I can explain the difference correctly.

To me, it seems as though the C-flex releases the pressure after I have started exhaling and there is a sudden release like letting the air out of a balloon.
OK, but I like A-flex better.

A-flex seems to release the pressure before I ever start to exhale. C-flex the release was noticeable but not with A-flex.
======================================

Rested Gal previous couple of nights I had an AHI of like 1.1 and 1.5 and 1.6. One night I forgot to put the card back in and lost the data .... grrrr. Severe case of dumbazz.

Last night .. for some unknown reason the AHI shot up into the low 4's.
I had also raised the humidifier setting from 2 to 2.5 and it used quite a bit more water. Perhaps the higher humidity caused the AHI jump.
I raised it because I do seem to mouth breath quite a bit and was getting dried out.
Only one night so far has the pressure got up to 15 briefly.
I will probably gradually increase min pressure now that I'm getting a baseline. If I start hitting the max pressure I will raise it too.

[rested gal]

Rested Gal previous couple of nights I had an AHI of like 1.1 and 1.5 and 1.6.

Ahhhh...ok, then I wouldn't change the min. Those are beautifully low AHI numbers!

Last night .. for some unknown reason the AHI shot up into the low 4's.
I had also raised the humidifier setting from 2 to 2.5 and it used quite a bit more water. Perhaps the higher humidity caused the AHI jump.

I doubt if the change in the humidifier setting and the fact that it used more water was the cause of the the jump in AHI. But I wouldn't worry about that "one night" higher AHI, anyway.

I will probably gradually increase min pressure now that I'm getting a baseline. If I start hitting the max pressure I will raise it too.

For the sake of experimenting, that's fine, but from what you say about usually getting AHIs below 2.0, I really think your treatment is going extremely well!

[BeanMeScot]

beammescot, I'm not sure if I can explain the difference correctly.

To me, it seems as though the C-flex releases the pressure after I have started exhaling and there is a sudden release like letting the air out of a balloon.
OK, but I like A-flex better.

A-flex seems to release the pressure before I ever start to exhale. C-flex the release was noticeable but not with A-flex.

Thanks for the explanation. I have an A Flex machine but the DME had C Flex on. I will try it with the A Flex and see if I like it better.

[rested gal]

While I like C-flex, it does its drop only at the beginning of the exhalation. A-flex does the same as C-flex to the beginning of the exhalation, but also rounds out the transitions between inhaling and exhaling.

A-Flex feels smoother to me, and feels like more pressure relief for exhaling, although the drop is probably the same amount that C-flex gives. Neither of them give an exact amount of drop in cm's when you exhale. The drop varies according to how forceful your natural exhalation is.

Each person is different. Some like one better than the other. Some like both "off." Some like a particular "level" of one or the other and don't like any other setting for it.

Just try them all during the day while you're awake, lying down, relaxed, and breathing normally. Don't try to breathe extra hard or deep. Just breathe normally. A minute or so of trying each setting is usually enough to let you see if you like that one or not.

When there was only C-flex, I liked C-Flex at "3." I like A-flex better, and like it at "3." But that's "me."

[BeanMeScot]

While I like C-flex, it does its drop only at the beginning of the exhalation. A-flex does the same as C-flex to the beginning of the exhalation, but also rounds out the transitions between inhaling and exhaling.

A-Flex feels smoother to me, and feels like more pressure relief for exhaling, although the drop is probably the same amount that C-flex gives. Neither of them give an exact amount of drop in cm's when you exhale. The drop varies according to how forceful your natural exhalation is.

Each person is different. Some like one better than the other. Some like both "off." Some like a particular "level" of one or the other and don't like any other setting for it.

Just try them all during the day while you're awake, lying down, relaxed, and breathing normally. Don't try to breathe extra hard or deep. Just breathe normally. A minute or so of trying each setting is usually enough to let you see if you like that one or not.

When there was only C-flex, I liked C-Flex at "3." I like A-flex better, and like it at "3." But that's "me."

I like the C Flex and I have it on 3 . I have noticed that it doens't seem in rhythm with me when I first turn on the machine and sometimes it is badly off. Eventually, everything settles in ok but maybe the A Flex willl work even better.

[BeanMeScot]

I like the C Flex and I have it on 3 . I have noticed that it doens't seem in rhythm with me when I first turn on the machine and sometimes it is badly off. Eventually, everything settles in ok but maybe the A Flex willl work even better.

Well the A Flex is even smoother than the C Flex. It's like there is nothing there. It's hard to imagine you have pressurized air moving until and unless you move the mask away from your face. However, I didn't sleep very well last night at all. It seemed like I was trying to go to sleep way too long and I woke up a couple of times during the night. We will see if that continues.

[DreamDiver]

Arizona Willie,

Just reading your chart, I count it this way:
Flow limitations: 2
Apneas: 15
Hypopneas: 14
Vibratory Snores: (Don't Count)

Total: 31 events

Some of the lines are thicker than others.
A line 2 pixels wide is two events.
A line 3 pixels wide is three events.

31 events / 7 hours = 4.42

That's pretty close to 4.3 - probably off because I rounded on the hours.

[OldLincoln]

With AFlex on 3 I had the machine starting the inhale before me, but AFlex on 2 put in exactly in sync.

[Arizona-Willie]

DreamDiver, I counted the thicker lines as two events in order to get the numbers I got. Flow limitations aren't supposed to be included only apneas and hypopneas, unless Respironics does it differently than the other manufacturers.

I downloaded the Encore Pro Analyser and that showed way more than showed on the Encore Pro. It showed the right number of apneas and hypopneas to make the index correct.

The question, in my mind, is why don't they all show on the graph? So far most nights have been fine. The graph shows the right number of events and it matches the index. Only on that one night, so far, has it been off. And, that night, also my AHI went far higher than it had been on previous nights. And then last night it went back to an AHI of 1.6 and the right number of apneas etc. showed. Everything looked just fine.

I'm wondering if perhaps some of the apneas that didn't show on the graph were centrals.

When testing a 420E it said I had some centrals but not every night.

But Respironics machines don't seem to recognize centrals. At least they don't mention them that I have seen.

I'm somewhat in a quandry. I'm testing several machines in order to determine which one I would like to buy out of pocket and, while I like the M Series with A flex and the Encore Pro software and the Analyzer software ... since they don't show centrals I'm thinking perhaps I should go with a Sandman Auto.

Decisions, decisions.

Arizona Willie,

Just reading your chart, I count it this way:
Flow limitations: 2
Apneas: 15
Hypopneas: 14
Vibratory Snores: (Don't Count)

Total: 31 events

Some of the lines are thicker than others.
A line 2 pixels wide is two events.
A line 3 pixels wide is three events.

31 events / 7 hours = 4.42

That's pretty close to 4.3 - probably off because I rounded on the hours.

[rested gal]

Unless a person has quite a problem with "central apneas", I wouldn't let that be any part of the decision about which machine to choose. A few random, scattered centrals on some nights -- or even many nights -- are nothing to be concerned about, imho.