Using Respirontics BiPap Pro2 for a week - but not better

[Woodland123]

Hi, I am new to this board. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea 10 years ago, but since my husband had stroke about that same time and I was still getting used to our new routine, I never followed up with the sleep doc who prescribed it and just quit using it 10 yrs ago. I never got thru the night with it.

Now my energy is gone, memory poor, depression, HBP, type 2 diabetes about 10 years as well.

Neurologist could find no reason for my memory problems and suggested the sleep study. I only had the sleep study done June 9 or 10 - and have only had this machine since June 23.

I am to schedule an appointment with the doctor (neurologist) at the sleep study center about a month after I got the machine. At present the paper work given me by Apria HealthCare (DME supplier) shows the machine is rented for 1 month.

I am not sure when the insurance will do the purchase, but I want to be sure I have the best machine for my needs when that time comes. I am about at "the end of my rope" due to this fatigue.

They furnished me a Respirontics BiPap Pro2 Bi Flex with heated humidifier. The pressure settings are 8 and 5. It is MUCH noisier than my 10 year old machine. It is so noisy that I have problem going to sleep. (I believe it makes more noise than my vacuum sweeper) Some nights I have used my 10 year old machine which was just a straight RemStar cpap with a pressure of 6 to get relief from the noise. Apria's Respiratory Tech is supposed to be "locating me a new machine".

I do not feel any better when I wake up. I still do not get to sleep until 2 - 3 am and just cannot do mornings. I do not sleep straight thru and wake at least 3-4 times during the night. I do not feel like moving much until after noon. I actually do not get any energy to do things I need to do - only get done what HAS to be done to get us thru the day.

I am not sure if I should just insist on a NEW machine (this one is not new) I am sure my insurance will pay most of the cost of a new machine and I most assuredly want a quieter machine and hopefully one that will actually help me function better.

What do you folks (with more experience than I have with these machines) recommend? Should I get the autoflex - I still am not sure of the correct terms to use).

I shall greatly appreciate any and all replies.

[rested gal]

They furnished me a Respirontics BiPap Pro2 Bi Flex with heated humidifier. The pressure settings are 8 and 5.

I would try to get a Respironics REMstar Autopap with C-Flex and heated humidifier. With the pressure range set for 5 or 6 - 12 and C-Flex set at 3. C-flex will provide a nice drop of pressure each time you exhale. Unless you have an extreme pulmonary condition that requires a precisely exact drop for exhaling, the auto with C-Flex should give you plenty of exhalation relief. Especially at no more pressure ( 8 ) than you've been prescribed for inhalation on BiPap. Just my opinion..I'm not a doctor.

No modern cpap, autopap, or bipap should be noisier than a vacuum cleaner! Given that Apria (gawd, they strike again!!) didn't provide you with a new machine in the first place, they probably will balk considerably at the idea of getting you a specific autopap machine. They get reimbursed more by your insurance for a bipap. They would get no more reimbursement for an autopap than they would for a basic cpap machine. Thus, they will be very reluctant to let you have an autopap and lose out in the reimbursement game.

You can probably expect them to tell you that you'll have to have a new prescription from your doctor to change the type of machine they give you. So, before you even approach Apria for that particular autopap, you'll need to get your doctor to write it out specifically on a new Rx...if he will.

Some doctors are knee-jerk anti-autopap. And some insurance companies require that you use a certain kind of machine for at least a month before they will even consider paying for another kind.

At the very least, I'd insist on Apria swapping for a less noisy machine of the same model. Which, it sounds like they might be willing to do, since you said they are trying to "locate" another machine. The Respironics BiPAP Pro 2 with Bi-Flex and heated humidifier is a very good machine.

I personally prefer an autopap so the machine can vary the pressure according to what I really need during the night. The pressure of 8 you were prescribed is pretty low. That might, indeed, be all you need to keep your throat open, but I'd want at least a trial on autopap to confirm that that pressure can get the job done, if it were me.

You didn't mention if the mask they gave you suits you all right. Actually, moreso than what machine you get, the mask will be the key to getting treatment that's comfortable enough to keep you using it as consistently as you need to.

Good luck!! It can get better.

[Guest]

Rested Girl,

Thanks for your reply.

It sounds like maybe others have had a problem with Apria. I hope they will be cooperative - but where money is concerned, I doubt it.

The mask is a Respirontics Comfort Gel. It seems ok, but I only the the 10 year old mask to compare it with and that one was probably the reason I gave up on the machine so easily. Had I known non use could cause memory loss and other medical problems, I probably would have tried harder and asked about other equipment - but I really did not know there were other choices then.

The mask at times gets very hot - but I am hot natured and even at age 62 can still have periods of extreme heat and will sweat from top of hair down in minutes. This is day or night, but especially with walking or doing housework, or personal care for my husband.

I often have to lift the mask off my face and let the air cool it and wipe dry. Is there a lighter and more comfortable one I should ask to try? I do not believe I could use the things that go in your nose. I have a lot of nasal stuffiness even before BiPap and often have to use ClaritinD and/or Flonase.

I believe I will call the Dr who prescribed the machine and ask for an appointment - or am I expecting too much in only a week time?

[ahujudybear]

Woodland?

Welcome to the forum!

A BiPAP that is noisy? Are you using a heated humidifier? That can help to muffle any noise. Or put a rubber mat under the machine.

But it sounds like the machine might be malfunctioning. I would have it tested (do hospitals do that for people?)

But like RG just said, and AutoPAP with C-flex should get your EPAP setting down to around the 5 like you have with the BiPAP

But it does take time to get accustomed to sleeping with something on your face, and the additional noise (I can scarcely hear mine. Have to break the seal to see if it's still running.)

[Woodland123]

I do toss and turn a lot at night due to achy bones - from side to side and back. Is there a preferred mask for this and my heat intolerance?

[rested gal]

Is there a lighter and more comfortable one I should ask to try? I do not believe I could use the things that go in your nose. I have a lot of nasal stuffiness even before BiPap and often have to use ClaritinD and/or Flonase.

My personal favorites are "nasal pillows" interfaces precisely because they are lighter and more comfortable...for me, anyway...and for a lot of people.

I know what you mean about not thinking you could use things that go in the nose. I can't either. You'd be surprised, though, at how little of the "pillows" cones go into the nostrils. Just a tiny tip end, in most cases; and just barely inside the entrance.... not crammed in at all.

Pictures of nasal pillows masks look like something is shoved up into the nostrils, but they fit most comfortably and seal against air leaks best if they simply sit outside and against the openings to the nostrils (the nares.)

I like the Breeze with nasal pillows and the Aura with nasal pillows. Many like the Swift with nasal pillows. I'd suggest you try the Breeze and the Swift. The Aura actually has the softest, smushiest pillows of all, but the headgear of the Aura can be too big for many women's heads...not because of the funny looking "lockbox" on top (which is actually very light...not bothersome at all) but because of the headgear straps being too long for many women, even with the straps taken up as much as possible.

Breeze or Swift - see if you can try those. I believe you'll be pleasantly surprised at how they feel, and how much freedom they give you to toss and turn with a minimum of leak problems, compared to most conventional "nasal masks" that cover the nose.

Just be sure that you get nasal pillows bigger than you (or the DME who fits you) thinks you should have. "Bigger" means the nasal pillows will sit more to the outside of the entrance to your nostrils. They definitely should not be small enough that they have to be pushed up inside to seal well. For example, I have a small nose and small nares (nostril openings) but I like the "Large" pillows with my Breeze. The Large are light mint green color, the Medium are clear colored, the Small are light blue.

The Swift comes with all three sizes of pillows (Small, Medium and Large.) If you decide on a Swift, make sure the DME gives you ALL THREE SIZES to take home with it. They probably will try to give you only the size they think you need, but when they bought the Swift in the first place, all three sizes came with it, so you should insist on getting everything that's paid for with the Swift.

If you usually sleep on your back, the Swift is better for that than the Breeze. For side sleeping, the Breeze is better, imho, but Swift is ok for that too.

Hang in there..you'll get the pieces to the puzzle in place.
_____________________________________
My disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, nor have I ever worked in the health care field. Those are just my personal opinions. A mask or machine I love/hate could be completely the opposite for others. Finding suitable equipment can be an expensive trial and error experience.

[gracie97]

They furnished me a Respirontics BiPap Pro2 Bi Flex with heated humidifier. The pressure settings are 8 and 5.


Am using a Remstar Pro 2 with C-flex, not an auto-pap, and can attest that it is amazingly quiet. I have super-sensitive hearing but can hardly hear it and not at all with earplugs in.

I've read biPaps are noiser than CPAP's. The C-flex feature functions sort of like a biPap in that it cuts pressure on exhalation, making it easier to exhale.

Also using the Breeze nasal pillows -- those are surprisingly comfortable and so far have stayed on well. From what you wrote, it would seem that you may really be better off ditching the mask.

(The only thing I don't like about the Breeze is that I can't wear glasses and read with it on.)

[woodland]

ahujudybear

Thanks for the welcome...and your response.

I do have a humidifier on it but since I get hot easily, I have not turned the "Heat" option on it, but do use the humidifier. Also, I found an old pad in my attic that went under an electric typewriter to absorb the sound. I am using that under the machine. I have been tempted to put a pillow over the machine but I'm afraid that would not be safe.

I hope Apria's R/T will hurry and find another machine!

[Woodland]

Thanks for the input.

I printed out all the replies and plan to hit Apria with my complaints next week. I will ask to try the nasal pillows.

and I will talk with my doctor about possibly getting the autopap.

Y'all have a great 4th!

[ozij]

Hi Woodland,
I want to chime in in support of nasal pillows. You don't have to believe in them - I didn't I saw that famous Breeze picture and thought "NO WAY!" .
But I was given a Breeze to try - after having tried 3 nasal (not pillow) masks which hot an painful - and it was wonderful.
I sometimes wake up sweating - and have to dry my upper lip beneath the pillows - but that's nothing compared to what I felt when I was sweating under a nasal mask.

And don't worry about your nose being stuffy - the pillows might even be better for those conditions, unless your nose is so stuffy that you can't breathe and are using a full face (ff) mask.

It's not necessarily the Breeze that will be best for you, you might find one of the other kinds more fitting on your face, but do give nasal pillows a fighting chance.


O.

[MartiniLover]

I am using the same machine you have. It is not noisy, IMHO.

Something must be wrong with the machine. Push for a different machine.

I have used both Pro 2 machines, CPAP, BiPap and liked them both. I agree though, with your pressures a APAP would probably work as well or better. I never understood until I had six months of rental of the BiPap under my belt, and have too much money invested now to try the APAP. My pressure is close to yours, 12/9. A APAP would have done the same thing for me I think and much cheaper.

I can only tell you to keep trying masks until you find the right one. Now is the time to put up the fuss, and keep changing masks as your DME will keep trading them. I am one those odd people who happens to like the prongs of the Nasal Aire II. My favorite mask.

[ahujudybear]

Woodland, one more thing to consider when you are trying masks is your bed pillow. Here are a couple of links to threads on the topic. My favorite is the "shapeable" pillow ($12.99 at Target). It feels like a puff ball of water without the stiff covering. It forms around you and your mask, holding the mask in place without dislodging it, yet it shifts as you change position. The only drawback is that it has to be thoroughly fluffed up before each use. I like it so much that I bought three extras, one of which I keep in the car!

- JB

viewtopic.php?t=2997&highlight=pillows

viewtopic.php?t=3446&highlight=pillows

[rested gal]

gracie97 mentioned: The only thing I don't like about the Breeze is that I can't wear glasses and read with it on.

Actually, you can...if you can ignore the vertical hose guide in front. I just pull the shell that holds the nasal pillows forward away from my nostrils, slip my glasses on from underneath, and settle the nasal pillows shell back into position.

This maneuver would have been risky to do with the old original Breeze (was easy to break) but is no problem with the improved Breeze which came out about a year ago.


woodland, you said:
"I hope Apria's R/T will hurry and find another machine!"

I hope so, too. Don't wait for them to call you. You may drop through the cracks. Call them every day to politely check on the status of the search. This is about your medical treatment...a treatment that they already got you started on - but with a defectively too-noisy machine...their fault. Urge them every day to hurry it up. If you don't receive a replacement machine in just a few days, ask your doctor's office to give them a call, too. That should be an attention getter for sure.

If you do ask your doctor for an autopap, be sure he specifies Autopap with C-flex and heated humidifier. There's only brand of autopap that has C-flex - Respironics. Your DME apparently carries that manufacturer's machines, as the BiPAP Pro 2 they gave you is also made by Respironics. Shouldn't be any problem for them to get the Auto with C-Flex for you, if your doctor orders it.

[susaninct]

I am new too and just started using the Respirontics BiPap Plus - not sure how different our two models are but mine is almost silent. I hope you get your machine checked out.

Best of luck to you!!

Susan S.

[WillSucceed]

Woodland:
I wonder if you are getting noise from the connection between the CPAP machine and the humidifier tank. Several times I have found my machine making noise and have noticed that there is some leak at the coupling between the machine and the humidifier tank. Sometimes the coupling gets jammed too far onto the CPAP machine and has a noisy leak where it connects to the water tank.

Here is the cure:

Pull the humidifier tank away from the machine a couple of inches.

Make sure that the CPAP machine is sitting properly on the platform. The CPAP machine sits on little pegs at the back of the platform; the machine should not move around -->it should be stable and locked in place.

GENTLY pull the small clear silicone coupler (small donut) off the air outlet on the CPAP machine. You may have to wiggle it a bit AND keep one hand on the top of the CPAP machine so that it stays firmly in place on the platform. This air outlet is the point where the air blows from the CPAP into the humidifier water tank.

GENTLY place the coupler that you have just removed from the outlet on the CPAP machine onto the inlet of the humidifier tank. Be sure to NOT change the orientation of the coupler. IE, don't turn it around. You want the end that came off the machine to stay facing the machine.

Now, place your left hand on top of the CPAP machine and press down slightly; just enough so that the machine does not move or shift on the platform AND gently slide the water tank back into the platform so that it will mate with the air outlet on the CPAP machine.

I hope that this helps!