Clonazepam

[izzyb]

I just got back from my pulmonary doctor. The check up was useless. I have problems sleeping and he gave me a prescription for Clonazepam. He didn't want to take the time to talk to me about it or give me any information about the drug. So of course I got on the internet. Nothing I have read sounds good. Any thoughts on this as a sleep aid for someone with sleep apnea.

[sepool]

I just got back from my pulmonary doctor. The check up was useless. I have problems sleeping and he gave me a prescription for Clonazepam. He didn't want to take the time to talk to me about it or give me any information about the drug. So of course I got on the internet. Nothing I have read sounds good. Any thoughts on this as a sleep aid for someone with sleep apnea.

I have used Clonazepam as an anti-anxiety drug to quite good effect, but it has been awhile. My wife (not on CPAP) uses it to get to sleep. She says it works fine - she has used it for years.

I didn't note any particular side effects, except calmness.

What is the nature of your sleeping difficulties? I think if the doctor prescribed Clonazepam, he his thinking panic or anxiety.

[Hawthorne]

It sounds like a Benzodiazepam. I am on Bromazepam (another Benzodiazepam) but it is NOT to help me sleep! It is a mild sedative though and is addictive.

I was prescribed it more than 20 years ago, for A-Typical migraine. I now only take 1 1/4 mg a day ( I took 3 mg in the morning and 3 mg at night for about 6 months when I first started the drug) and I now take it only in the morning and have been on this small dose for almost 20 years. I have been taking it a lot longer than I have had sleep apnea. Taking it in such a small dose and taking it in the morning means it has little or no effect on my sleep.

My thoughts about it as a sleep aid- not a good thing. When I was first diagnosed with sleep apnea, 6 years ago, the Sleep Specialist was concerned about me taking it when I have sleep apnea. He assumed I took it at bedtime and that it was to help me sleep. When I explained to him when and why I took it, and the small dose I was taking, he was no longer concerned about it's possible effect on my sleep.

[DreamDiver]

I have a friend who is using clonazepam for sleeplessness.
He loves it.
It's basically a Valium clone, but less addictive, from what he told me.
It's also used for stress and bipolar disorders.

I have to admit, the few times I've tried Valium, it was awesome sleep for me.

[plantgingram]

It is used most often for REM sleep disorder. It is addictive.

[tomjax]

As a pharmacist, I have known many people who had major problems with clonazepam.
One was a doctors wife. She refused to get off it until she was hospitalized.

Another was a director of a substance abuse clinic who himself had had a history of abuse.
He ended up in the hospital with a heart atack and was put on it and ended up in a recovery center because he could not get off it.

there are several others.
It is interesting to go to any manufacturers site for side effects and see how they minimalize the horror stories.

Ambien is another such drug that MANY majr problems, but the docs keep writing it.

Most problem with drugs, like alcohol, are problems with people with a tendency to have an addictive personality.
In most cases, it is the person, not the drug.
--------
Quote for the day durin quickie::
"This will not take long, did it?"

[roster]

I just got back from my pulmonary doctor. The check up was useless. I have problems sleeping and he gave me a prescription for Clonazepam. He didn't want to take the time to talk to me about it or give me any information about the drug. So of course I got on the internet. Nothing I have read sounds good. Any thoughts on this as a sleep aid for someone with sleep apnea.

I have taken it often in the past while I was using cpap. It definitely makes me sleep. But then I feel worse the next day. I doubt that the sleep you get when taking it is a normal sleep architecture and this may be why you feel bad the next day.

My first sleep doc prescribes it freely to many of his patients. My current sleep doc said she doesn't approve of using it for insomnia.

For general insomnia I will never take it again. If I ever have some major emotional stress I would probably take it again to "knock me out" at night.

[Cloud 9]

I have used it. It will relax you and help you to sleep. There are a couple of issues I had using it. It takes a week or so for the morning hang over feeling to go away. You develop a tolerance if used over a long time, necessitating increasing the dose to have the same effect to induce sleep. To discontinue, you need to decrease the dose gradually over time, and once off of it the rebound effect of sleep difficulty resumes. At least that's my experience.

I now use Trazodone to help with sleep onset. It's an antidepressant that for me does nothing other than give me a 30-45 minute window of drowziness that helps me fall asleep. I find if I do not lay down soon after taking it, its effectivness as a sleep aid soon fades. There are no negative effects if I do not take it.

[izzyb]

I didn't have time to explain everything the other day, so here goes. I was not happy with my doc. It is the first time I have actually seen him since he diagnosed me two years ago. I have been seeing those "not quite doctors" for all my check-ups. I can't remember all the initials after their names and don't know exactly what they are, but not MDs. No offense to anyone in this position. Anyway, he rushed and patronized me the entire visit. He hardly asked me any questions and when I volunteered any pertinent information, he just brushed me off. He actually acted amused by my concern. When I started asking him questions about Clonazepam he wouldn't really give me any information. When I asked if it was addictive, he just smiled and said everything was. He mentioned it helping leg jerks and RLS. Now I have never mentioned either of these in my visits since I don't have these. Over the years I have experienced leg jerks but very rarely and certainly not often enough to have a problem. He also said it helped stress. Of course, I do have stress, but he never asked me if I do and didn't discuss it with me. I mentioned I do have depression, but didn't discuss that with me. Now I know he doesn't specialize in depression, but you would think he would discuss it with me since it relates to sleeping problems. So, he pushed me out the door with that prescription.

I went to my DME afterwards to get a new mask and hose which I had to mention that I needed since I haven't had a new one for probably over a year and only because the mask broke. He treated me like an idiot because I insisted on a prescription. He said I didn't need one, but I know from experience the DME will ask for one, and if I don't have one they have to call the doc's office and get one, so why not get it while I am there to save time and trouble. So I talked to them about getting a different mask because even though I like mine okay, I wondered if I could do better. I think it is a possibility that I have leaks that I am not aware of. She recommended me trying a full face, and after discussing it and trying one on, I decided to give it a shot. It is the Ultra Mirage but I can't find that one on the website. Just the Ultra Mirage II. I have slept with it for two nights and I am not sure about it. It seems to leak easier than my other one. I also have to make it tighter to keep it in place. That is more uncomfortable and causes more dents on the face.

I also took one-half a Clonazepam last night. I did sleep better - didn't wake up as often. After 7 hours I am a little unsteady this morning, but not really groggy. I really don't want to have to depend on a sleep aid for the rest of my life. The doctor didn't seem concerned about this. He acted like it was okay to be on a sleep aid because you have to sleep. (I agree - if you're not sleeping, you are not being treated. This is the only thing we agreed on.) He didn't seem concerned about finding out the root of the problem. i am especially concerned because of the addiction and the tolerance build up. I didn't do a thorough search, but I didn't see anyting recommending Clonazepam for sleep. The side effects seem to be the same as everything else including antidepressants. Another big problem I have with most meds is the side effect of blurry vision and pain. I can't take antidepressents because of it. It gets so bad it effects my work. It is hard to type and proof read when you can't see. I think the Ambien was causing it too, and otc sleep aids and 5-HTP. It seems that anything to do with your brain chemicals causes this. Although I don't think otc meds effect brain chemicals. I could be wrong. I know they are antihistamines. I have gone to an opthamologist to make sure I haven't done any permanent damage to my eyes, and he said it is dry eyes. I don't have a lack of tears, they are just thin (quality not quantity) and some meds make it worse. There is nothing really I can do about it but avoid those meds. I just can't seem to win. Everything for sleep and depression causes side effects as bad as the symptoms of these problems.

I now use Trazodone to help with sleep onset.

I am pretty up on all the antidepressants except Trazodone. I haven't tried that one.

[I doubt that the sleep you get when taking it is a normal sleep architecture and this may be why you feel bad the next day.
/quote]

I had read this about Ambien and asked him about it. He said that is not true. That with Ambien you get REM and Delta.

Ambien is another such drug that MANY majr problems, but the docs keep writing it.

I wanted to quit taking this because it was really messing me up. My cognitive skills were getting bad -effecting me at work. I had become a total air head. And it was effecting my coordination.

My wife (not on CPAP) uses it to get to sleep. She says it works fine - she has used it for years.

Has she tried to go off the Clonazepam or had to increase the dose for effectiveness?

What is the nature of your sleeping difficulties? I think if the doctor prescribed Clonazepam, he his thinking panic or anxiety.

He never even asked me about the details. Just prescribed it without discussing my problems.

[No to drugs]

Most problem with drugs, like alcohol, are problems with people with a tendency to have an addictive personality.
In most cases, it is the person, not the drug. "

I disagree. Perhaps being a pharmacist, where you make your living on selling drugs, your judgement is clouded. The problem with these kinds of drugs including SSRIs, tricyclates, anti-psychotics, NSSRIs, etc is their documented side effects with short and long term use. The withdrawl effects can be deadly as well as other common reported side effects including mental zaps, diabetes, and weight gain. And while these drugs may help with anxiety, recent (non drug company sponsored studies) show that they work no better in treating mood disorders as a placebo.

It's sickening, the drug companies won't be satisfied until everyone is taking medication on long term basis for this and that. Heck, they even want children to take blood pressure and cholestrol medications instead of adapting a healthy life style. What's the world coming to?

[izzyb]

I messed up on my last post. Some of my replies are in with the quotes. Sorry. Just letting everybody know because I had some questions in there.

[No to drugs]

izzy, you need to see another family doctor. It's a fact that these kinds of drugs are overprescribed in America. The drug companies have become so powerful, even much more powerful than the tobacco industry was back in the day.

[tomjax]

No to drugs,
You are very presumptive in saying my judgment is clouded because I am a pharmacist
I will skip the details, but I think I know of which I speak.
This includes a more than 50 year interest in psychotropics due to a family tragedy.

It also includes my own experiences with the recovery community.
I was sent to a recovery center by the shrinks who concluded I must be on drugs if I was falling asleep at work. 'I had OSA, NOT substance abuse.
this led to further interest in psychiatry and their use and misuse of drugs and psychiatric abuse.
I wrote letters and participated in several forums in my effort to learn more about psychiatry and drugs they misuse.
I was invited to participate in a tv forum on psychiatric abuse, but declined when I learned it was sponsored by Scientologists.
I started writing my book NIGHTMARE IN SHRINKSVILLE, but gave up when I discovered I was not a writer.
I have learned lots of things outside the drugstore.
I have an intense interest in addiction, purely academic, not that I am or have ever had a problem.
BTW, I lost my pharmacy license anway because the hearing officer decided my sleep doc was less credible than the shrink who testified you would not expect to find EDS in apnea patients.
What is your expertise in these matters?

[DreamDiver]

It's sickening, the drug companies won't be satisfied until everyone is taking medication on long term basis for this and that. Heck, they even want children to take blood pressure and cholestrol medications instead of adapting a healthy life style. What's the world coming to?

No to drugs,
You are very presumptive in saying my judgment is clouded because I am a pharmacist...
What is your expertise in these matters?

no to drugs, tomjax,

I'm not sure you both realize this, but you actually agree.

Physicians, pharmacists and patients become casualties in a campaign by pharmacorporations to keep people on therapies that mask without really healing physical problems. Research on real healing has become next to impossible. Any avenues of research that lead to reduction in sales is quietly scuttled, not because researchers don't want to, but because corporations won't pay for grants that kill a product that keeps paying off.

Truly, whether we want it or not, the US system of healthcare is addicted to 'silver bullet' drugs that mask rather than heal.

[babydoss]

My husband is the CPAPer and has used this drug even BEFORE he got on the CPAP machine.
He can't sleep without it and his melatonin. The sleep dr is not crazy about it (says the drug
could possibly repress breathing) but hubby insists on getting it from his reg dr. He's fine.

I just got into the machine today to check his readings.
System Leak = 40
AHI = 2.4 (7 days), 1.7 (30 days)

I must admit that he has been feeling tired lately and it's probably time to see the sleep dr again.
It's been over a year since his last visit.

Sweet dreams,
Lee