Airlines and Magnetic Waves

[allend]

Hi everyone,

I haven't been online in a while because things have been great. I am using the Mirage Activa and that's been great and using Nasonex has been keeping me clear.

We are flying back from San Francisco on Continental Airlines on an 11:00 PM flight and I was told that you cannot use a cpap or bipap machine because it can emit magnetic waves. Delta says that you can use the machines but you need it to be battery operated but the Delta flight out there is in the morning and that really isn't a problem.

I could get a battery and just see what happens when I get to the plane for that 11:00 PM flight but if it can cause a problem with the planes, I don't want to use it.

What is your experience with this? I was surprised when I heard that Continental won't allow any pap machines.

Alan

[Goofproof]

It's probably not as dangerious as hung over pilots. Jim

[allend]

It's probably not as dangerious as hung over pilots. Jim

When a plane takes off and lands, they do ask you to shut off electronic devices. I have mixed feeling about all of this. Next summer we are going to Europe, thatan even longer flight.

We try to plan these trips so as not to waste the money for an extra day in a hotel, not to mention the boredom of just sitting there. But that may just be our cross to bear among a few other things.

[roster]

There was a recent thread here that said the Feds were proposing a rule requiring batteries for cpaps so that it would be sure you can use your cpap in flight.

Now we are being told you can't use it?

[tangents]

My advice, for what it's worth:
Get yourself a battery, and attempt to use the device on the Continental flight. There was a recent thread about this, and one forum member put forth that if you ask, they'll say no, but if you just use it, they'll usually let you.

It is a good idea for the airlines to make passengers turn off electronic devices on takeoff and landing, but all electronic devices pass electromagnetic emissions tests before they can be marketed. There's no doubt in my mind that a CPAP emits less than a laptop, and much less than a wireless or Bluetooth mouse.

Good luck with your travels. Let us know how it goes.

Cathy

[HP]

The FAA is very nervous about lithium batteries on board.

This trickles down to the airlines, especially if the airline had an incident where a battery-operated product smoked or started a fire on board.

The FAA may believe that batteries are safer if they are not recharged in flight. This is the case where your laptop is plugged in to a power receptacle.
It's hard to immediately pull the power plugs from the planes, or ban battery-operated appliances.

Continental's magnetic wave issue is just another made up excuse to reduce use of batteries on board. We all know that airlines LOVE excuses.

The other airline made up the battery operation "only" story so that recharging would not take place.

Safety issues are items to be concerned about, but airlines LOVE excuses.

I am not affiliated with FAA or any airline.

HP

[DreamDiver]

Safety issues are items to be concerned about, but airlines LOVE excuses.

Allend, glad things are going well for you!

The 'Magnetic Wave' thing is a load of BS concocted by some airline official to befuddle the masses into ignorant compliance. When you consider the number of flights that have seat-back video screens, seat-back telephones and other electrical paraphernalia -- not even counting the miles of wiring in a plane -- telling people to shut off a cpap amounts to the same amount of electro-magnetic disturbance reduction as shutting off a cabin reading light. Maybe less, depending on the efficiency and wiring of the light, the age of the plane and the age of the cpap machine. Even metal fillings in your teeth emit electromagnetic waves.

The next step would be to disallow cellphones, laptops and games on flights, since they just about all use lithium ion batteries today.But then they'll lose all their business clients.

Isn't it illegal for airlines not to comply with ADA?

[danmc]

I always fly economy - I assumed that power plugs were only in business class seats and above. Are there power plugs I just haven't found yet? I suppose it varies by airline, so has anyone seen power plugs in economy on any airline?

[allend]

According to Continental it is the device that is the problem. I went to CPAP.com to buy a battery but in the comments someone said they could not use it on Continental.

When I spoke to the Continental Agent, she read from her regulations that no CPAP machines were allowed. We were going to change our seats to get closer to the bulkhead where there were plugs available but the "rules" prohibit the machine.

Using the ADA might be a tact to take but will that change Airline policy? Certainly, if someone died on a plane because he or she were not allowed to use a cpap or bipap, that might change things. When I went to the hospital for a colonoscopy the nurses told me that the hospital policy was that you had to remain there for at least 4 hours after you wake up from the anesthesia. Of course, I told the Anesthesiologist there was no way I was staying as I was perfectly wide awake. I do know that the hospitals have had some bad events.

I think I need to write a letter to the CEO of Continental.

What I don't understand is can not having one's cpap or bipap contribute to a bad cardiac event or is that someting that only happens over a long period of time where one is not sleeping well and ultimately straining their heart?

[kennethryan]

The who "no electronics" bit gets me all fired up. The root problem is a lack of understanding on the part of the airlines of modern portable devices and aircraft equipment.

Preface: I design electronics for airplanes. Mostly military stuff, but some civil. I did some work on the core computers for the Boeing 787 and cockpit video for Airbus A380.

Based on the EMC (ElectroMagnetic Compatibilty) testing we do, nothing short of a small thermonuclear device is going to make that equipment hiccup. Certainly not a cell phone, laptop, or blower motor. This applies not to just the newest aircraft (we have equipment on virtually everything flying). The frequency ranges used by these devices is very carefully tested. In any case, none of these devices emit enough EMI to affect the electronics (though it may be possible for a malicious person to modify equipment to briefly interfere, but I still don't think they could put out enough energy to matter).

Where there is some potential for interference is with the aircraft radios - not just voice but GPS and other navigation signals. In flight, a hiccup gets quickly corrected, certainly before the aircraft heads in the wrong direction. During approach, however, a hiccup could conceivably affect the approach and landing sequence (automated on most recent airliners).

So there is some basis for the takeoff/landing restrictions.

I should also note that takeoff and landing are the points where an accident is more likely. Devices that are out and in use become rather solid projectiles during a hard landing, and cables, wires (and hoses) can interfere with emergency evacuation. (During the cruise portion of the flight, a sudden "hard landing" generally doesn't leave enough of you to evacuate).

So I have no problem at all with the restrictions during the endpoints of the flight. I happen to believe, however, and with some basis, that there is no reason there should be any restrictions whatsoever on the devices you use in flight. In my rather cynical opinion, (and with no basis whatesoever), the biggest reason for limiting cell phone use is to make you use the AirFones built into the seat backs. I think the rules on CPAP machines is just because the airlines don't understand them (and don't care to).

[roster]

Thanks for the good post.

...In my rather cynical opinion, (and with no basis whatesoever), the biggest reason for limiting cell phone use is to make you use the AirFones built into the seat backs. ........

.......... and maybe to save me from having to listen to some obnoxious person yak into a cell phone for the whole dang trip! .

[Guest]

I understand that we're all addicted to our machines, but honestly, is 6-8 hours UPRIGHT without a CPAP going to kill you?

Are there any known cases of people dying in their sleep in-flight?

I know you're not going to feel your best when you get off the plane - NO ONE DOES, INCLUDING THOSE WITHOUT OSA!

I'm sorry, I just don't get the big concern with strapping on a mask on a plane flight. Can someone enlighten me?

And yes, I've flown cross-country since starting CPAP. And no, it never occurred to me to bother with the CPAP in-flight, and I felt the same getting off the plane as I did any other time I've flown.

Cheers,
Babs

[billbolton]

It is a good idea for the airlines to make passengers turn off electronic devices on takeoff and landing

I don't know what the exact situation is in the US air safety jurisdiction, but turning off all electronic devices during takeoff and landing is a specific air safety regulatory requirement in much of the world.

Cheers,

Bill

[billbolton]

I suppose it varies by airline, so has anyone seen power plugs in economy on any airline?

Virgin Airways newish domestic US operation (Virgin America?) has them. The routes are somewhat limited as yet, but they are expanding their network.

Cheers,

Bill

[birdshell]

What I don't understand is can not having one's cpap or bipap contribute to a bad cardiac event or is that something that only happens over a long period of time where one is not sleeping well and ultimately straining their heart?

While I can understand that the airline seats do not allow for much reclining, and therefore apnea would be less likely to cause a problem... Have they considered the snoring potential for a cpap-less apneic? Talk about being annoyed by crying babies or aggravated by conversations on cell phones...

Karen