Can this be a new APAP?

RachelM · Post by **RachelM** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:48 am

My Resp M Series APAP w/cflex went out Sunday and Monday the DME warranteed it out for a APAP w/aflex. He assured me that it was a new, never used machine.

The summary screen reads:
Blower hours 391
Therapy hours 0
Therapy sessions 0

How can this be?

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:59 am

Often the plant has to make sure the blower is working properly and many times new machines will show blower hours. I am not sure exactly how many they put on them though.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:02 am

absolutely NOT!!! Your DME is trying to pass that machine off as new?

That is a FTC violation, I would report the slimeballs and I would also report it to your Insurance company so they get blackballed.

391 Blower hours is the total hours the machine has been used. The slimeball DME you got it from cannot change that number.

It is a machine if used for 4hrs per night has been used for 97 days.

Your insurance will not replace your machine for 5 years, take it back and have them give you a new machine or return it and find a new DME.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:03 am

sleepycarol wrote:Often the plant has to make sure the blower is working properly and many times new machines will show blower hours. I am not sure exactly how many they put on them though.

That is clearly NOT the case, if any factory testing took place it wouldn't exceed 2 hours.

391 blower hours is a trial machine someone returned.

RachelM · Post by **RachelM** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:16 am

It showed 0 therapy hours and 0 therapy sessions. How can they reset these to 0 and not the blower hours?

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:17 am

Thanks Snoredog. Wasn't sure how many they put on them.

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:35 am

I would march right back into that DME's office and not leave until I got a NEW machine. You can also threaten to inform your insurance company about this FRAUD!

Alot of us have had problems dealing with DME's simply because when we start out, we are sometimes ignorant of how things are supposed to work. They see us an uninformed and ignorant of the ways of CPAP, so they use that against us, until we learn the so called ropes. After we are more informed, it can be too late to change much of anything.

I started reading this board before I was even tested and knew a little bit more that some others at that stage. My DME was telling me lies right from the start about EVERYTHING, including how my insurance worked. She stole nasal pillows out of a box of supposedly new ones that had 3 sizes included. I fired that place before my 1st month of use. I returned my machine to them and demanded the rest of the pillow sizes, which she did give me at that point. She mumbled something about how she does that when she knows a patient is only going to use 1 size... yea, well, it was paid for by insurance and is supposed to be complete!

I ended up at another DME place and am totally happy with them. They know the ropes and never tried to scam me. The RT's are nice people and do not tell me lies.

Good luck and don't settle for things that are not right just in order to not rock to boat! They have already told you 1 lie and probably think they got away with it!

NeedinZs · Post by **NeedinZs** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:36 am

My new AFLEX had ZERO blower hours. They are obviously lying.
You shouldn't have to end up with a used machine! Main point, they are deliberately passing it off on you, as new. Who knows why/how they came up with that machine....it could have already had problems.

Does it smell, other than new? I have had 2 different titration machines that had been in other people's homes, that wreaked of cigarettes and "old man" aftershave, I couldn't stand to be in the same room with, let alone have the smell shoved down my throat all night.

Don't let 'em get away with it!

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:50 am

Well, how old was your auto w/C-Flex? And did they charge you or your insurance anything for this auto w/A-Flex or just traded even up?

Lets see, you upgraded your "used" (by you) auto w/C-Flex w/how many hours on it? for a used auto w/A-Flex w/391 hours on it. Now, if there was NO CHARGE to you or your insurance company I'd say you most likely came out ahead of the game.

IF they charged you or your insurance even one penny for the exchange I'd be raising old holy ruckus!

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:00 am

Slinky wrote:Well, how old was your auto w/C-Flex? And did they charge you or your insurance anything for this auto w/A-Flex or just traded even up?

Lets see, you upgraded your "used" (by you) auto w/C-Flex w/how many hours on it? for a used auto w/A-Flex w/391 hours on it. Now, if there was NO CHARGE to you or your insurance company I'd say you most likely came out ahead of the game.

IF they charged you or your insurance even one penny for the exchange I'd be raising old holy ruckus!

I believe it is the DME's "assurance" that is in question in the original thread post.

I purchased two APAP machines from cpap.com and both had ZERO blower hours. The web pages from which I ordered them make no assurances but it was, and I suppose for most, is the assumption that such a machine have ZERO blower hours.

Based on many posts to this forum, a lot of DMEs are about as honest as a politician.

RachelM · Post by **RachelM** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:01 am

Completely under warranty: They traded even-up, did not bill me or insurance. Gave me a two-year warranty from date of trade.

I may still contact them. I distinctly asked DME if it was a new machine and he said yes, never used.

To give DME benefit of doubt, maybe he just thought it was new?

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:11 am

So for the "price" of 391 hours on a device built to last 1000s of hours you got an upgrade from C-Flex to A-Flex AND an additional two years on your original guarantee. Where is that such a bad deal?

Yeah, I'd let the DME supplier know that the A-Flex really wasn't new, that it had 391 hours on it, but I wouldn't make an issue of it. I'd just want them to KNOW that "I" KNEW and that it really would have been better if they had been more forthcoming w/the truth. But frankly, other than that I just wouldn't be in a twit. I'd figure I still got the better end of the deal and now know to be less trusting of ANYTHING they tell me in the future.

You joined this forum one day after I got my first xPAP. Assuming you had your C-Flex device by Dec 06 - your C-Flex must have had somewhere around 3000 hours on it? vs 391 hours, upgrade to A-Flex and an new 24 month guarantee? What's the beef? Other than the lack of truth? Sounds like a cheap warning that this local DME isn't always the most truthful soul on the block.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:18 pm

To clear everything except the blower hours and compliance number. Unplug, hold both arrow keys and plug in. Hold the arrow keys for 3 or 4 secs until it beeps. Hit the left arrow button and step through the menus until you come to the "Therapy Hours screen". Hold down the (-) button for about 5 seconds or until the therepy hours screen shows 0. Punch the on button to get out of the set-up menu. This should clear everything except blower hours.

You can tell your DME you know how they cleared your USED machine!

Jerry

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:28 pm

Hmmmm. I don't know. If the old machine was under warranty and it broke and they said they were delivering a new machine--seems to me that they ought to deliver a new machine, period. I "get" what you are saying about the old machine having thousands of hours on it--but it isn't the poster's fault the old machine broke. If it is under warranty, isn't it implied that a new replacement will be given? The cflex to aflex is moot, in my opinion. I wouldn't expect a sportscar to be replaced with a 10 year old geo metro, but whatever was comparable. Aflex is the new cflex now. They probably don't even sell cflex at that dme anymore.

I think the poster is within his or her rights to call them on it and ask for a new machine. ESPECIALLY if the replacement has any funny odors.

I guess what irks me more than anything is that they looked at him or her and outright lied, assuming they wouldn't know any better. That alone would make me stick it to them. I can't abide lying.

Jen

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:45 pm

Many contracts have disclaimers in them about stating how such "repairs" "replacements" will be handled. Often times your equipment / parts are replaced with used parts that have been rebuilt, etc.

When I have purchased used items I will often state that they are "new" such as I purchased a "new" car when actually what I purchased was a preowned car. It could be the DME meant exactly that -- the machine is "new" to Rachel. A machine that has 391 hours on it hasn't been used much when you think about it compared to a machine that has been used nightly for several months. If her machine was nearing the end of her warranty is it in the best interest of the company to provide a brand new machine? If the machine is near the beginning of therapy example only a few weeks then I would expect another new machine -- but the catch is the age of the machine you are trading in.

If the machine in question has been used regularly for several months and you then can "switch" it because "something" happened to your old machine I bet they would have a run on people making sure that "something" happened to their "old" machine so that they would NEVER have to pay for a new machine ever.

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