Liberty leaking don't know where, frustrated

[Moby]

Hi everyone,

I've been posting in a few different threads about my Liberty trial. I have been trialling it about a month, and since I agreed to buy it a few days ago, the bloody thing has been leaking like a sieve regardless of what I do.

To recap, I was fitted in the clinic and it looked good on the leakometer there. I lay on the bed and rolled around a bit (helped the girl make the bed again afterwards, she was a bit alarmed about it all)

It took a few nights to learn how to adjust the headgear and to get used to it, and I started getting readings as good as I got with the Swift, without all the mouth tape hassle.

I started off with the Large mouth and Medium nosepieces. The nosepieces leaked in the middle of the nights, so I experimented with different nosepieces and mouthpieces, and am most comfortable/get less leaks (I thought) with the Large nose and Small mouthpieces.

Since April 1st (April fool's day??) my hypopneas have increased steadily and the leaks have increased too.

I have checked my mask carefully, and it is put together with no gaps.

Last night I reduced the pressure parameters, put a band round my head to keep the nosepieces from splaying out, and though I slept well and was not aware of excess leakage (a couple of episodes of mask fiddling like most people I guess) the leak rate was high and my hypopneas 11.4.

When I wake up I am breathing very shallow and slow, very relaxed and comfortable, perhaps the m/c registers these as hypops? hopefully so.

here is a summary and the last three nights details (hopefully)

mobysummary0808.JPG

april6-7.JPG

detailed0808jpg.JPG

detail 8 april

[Moby]

[Moby]

here are my daily comments since the liberty, don't know if they mean anything to anyone else, but ...
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii12 ... april9.jpg or maybe they'll come out as image.

f

[Snoredog]

Those Leak "peaks" indicate mouth breathing, try duct taping your mouth for a night and compare.

You would want to use the paper medical tape (surgical type) 1" wide will work fine, cut a piece about 1-3/4" long, fold back 1/4" creating a quick removal flap putting the flap on your favored hand side (i.e. right side for right-handed).

Johnson & Johnson makes the tape I used, it is hypoallergenic and the adhesive is not too sticky so it removes easily without irritation.

You put the tape horizontal across the lips with lips naturally together, doesn't really have to seal the mouth completely, it encourages you to keep your tongue planted in the hard palate and lessens the likely hood of the mandible dropping which leads to wide open mouth breathing. If you can also control nasal congestion you can train yourself not to mouth breathe.

Use your reports to monitor leak,

Liberty is a clone of the Hybrid, you need to check that mask with it on and allow your mandible to fully relax and drop, where it starts leaking is where it is most likely leaking during sleep.

When you are in REM, you are fully relaxed, any nasal congestion or if you start mouth breathing thru the liberty it will only get worse when your mandible or jaw drops.

Personally, I don't feel the design of that mask encourages you to breathe through your nares where better therapy is delivered (i.e. mask design encourages bad habits like mouth breathing).

[Moby]

Thanks Snoredog.

i don't want to tape, (WAAAAAAA!!!) the idea of trying the liberty was to lose the tape. I see your point though. I used the large mouthpiece last night. The leaks were better controlled (till the nose pieces inverted) but I woke up with my mouth hanging wide open and very dry.

I guess I'll keep the liberty as a FFF and go back to the good ol' Swift and uncomfortable one-sided sleeping and fancy headgear and mouth taping.

Sigh. I've been doing this a year, and the novelty is sure wearing off!

Thanks again,

Di

[Needsdecaf]

[quote="Snoredog"]Those Leak "peaks" indicate mouth breathing, try duct taping your mouth for a night and compare.

You would want to use the paper medical tape (surgical type) 1" wide will work fine, cut a piece about 1-3/4" long, fold back 1/4" creating a quick removal flap putting the flap on your favored hand side (i.e. right side for right-handed).

Johnson & Johnson makes the tape I used, it is hypoallergenic and the adhesive is not too sticky so it removes easily without irritation.

You put the tape horizontal across the lips with lips naturally together, doesn't really have to seal the mouth completely, it encourages you to keep your tongue planted in the hard palate and lessens the likely hood of the mandible dropping which leads to wide open mouth breathing. If you can also control nasal congestion you can train yourself not to mouth breathe.

Use your reports to monitor leak,

Liberty is a clone of the Hybrid, you need to check that mask with it on and allow your mandible to fully relax and drop, where it starts leaking is where it is most likely leaking during sleep.

When you are in REM, you are fully relaxed, any nasal congestion or if you start mouth breathing thru the liberty it will only get worse when your mandible or jaw drops.

Personally, I don't feel the design of that mask encourages you to breathe through your nares where better therapy is delivered (i.e. mask design encourages bad habits like mouth breathing).

[mch441]

Since April 1st (April fool's day??) my hypopneas have increased steadily and the leaks have increased too.

I have checked my mask carefully, and it is put together with no gaps.

Last night I reduced the pressure parameters, put a band round my head to keep the nosepieces from splaying out, and though I slept well and was not aware of excess leakage (a couple of episodes of mask fiddling like most people I guess) the leak rate was high and my hypopneas 11.4.

When I wake up I am breathing very shallow and slow, very relaxed and comfortable, perhaps the m/c registers these as hypops? hopefully so.

exactly why im happy i dont have a data capable machine ,if i wake up feeling good then my therapy is going just fine

OK, Stupid question from the new guy...how do you have bad mouth breathing from a mask that completely covers your mouth? Shouldn't you be able to breathe through either mouth or nose with this mask?

stupid ?? i think not .this is exactly the reason why i love this mask and use it everynight i find that i fall asleep breathing thru my nose and usually wake up breathing thru my mouth and im fine with that !!

i do have some sealing issues with my liberty ,i use a piece of surgical tape looped aound the base of the nose pillows to keep them from moving around and leaking during the night and when sleeping flat on my back i sometimes get a small leak at the corner of the mouth seal which really isnt a problem i sleep mostly on my side !!

[Needsdecaf]

stupid ?? i think not .this is exactly the reason why i love this mask and use it everynight i find that i fall asleep breathing thru my nose and usually wake up breathing thru my mouth and im fine with that !!

i do have some sealing issues with my liberty ,i use a piece of surgical tape looped aound the base of the nose pillows to keep them from moving around and leaking during the night and when sleeping flat on my back i sometimes get a small leak at the corner of the mouth seal which really isnt a problem i sleep mostly on my side !!

This is what I would have expected.

It is, however, the opposite of what snoredog stated above as in "Those Leak Peaks indicate mouth breathing, try duct taping your mouth shut....

[Snoredog]

[quote="Needsdecaf"][quote="Snoredog"]Those Leak "peaks" indicate mouth breathing, try duct taping your mouth for a night and compare.

You would want to use the paper medical tape (surgical type) 1" wide will work fine, cut a piece about 1-3/4" long, fold back 1/4" creating a quick removal flap putting the flap on your favored hand side (i.e. right side for right-handed).

Johnson & Johnson makes the tape I used, it is hypoallergenic and the adhesive is not too sticky so it removes easily without irritation.

You put the tape horizontal across the lips with lips naturally together, doesn't really have to seal the mouth completely, it encourages you to keep your tongue planted in the hard palate and lessens the likely hood of the mandible dropping which leads to wide open mouth breathing. If you can also control nasal congestion you can train yourself not to mouth breathe.

Use your reports to monitor leak,

Liberty is a clone of the Hybrid, you need to check that mask with it on and allow your mandible to fully relax and drop, where it starts leaking is where it is most likely leaking during sleep.

When you are in REM, you are fully relaxed, any nasal congestion or if you start mouth breathing thru the liberty it will only get worse when your mandible or jaw drops.

Personally, I don't feel the design of that mask encourages you to breathe through your nares where better therapy is delivered (i.e. mask design encourages bad habits like mouth breathing).

[Moby]

oh, I get it, my mouth drops open and the seal goes.

Then some of the air goes in my nose, out my mouth and out the side of the mask. Hence the dry mouth.

I tried the paper tape loop last night (at 3 am!!!) and it worked well for a couple of hours. the nosepieces stayed comfortably in my nose, but the mask started leaking on the jawline after a couple of hours. Then the dog licked my face to wake me up...

Yesterday I had a "sleep attack" in the afternoon, the first for a long time.


maybe I'll try the mouth tape with the Liberty... Sigh. Hate taping and polygripping. Feel like a bloody freak at bedtime. Grumble grumble.

Thanks guys

Di

[Moby]

Snoredog, i taped last night.
slept 9 hrs

AI -,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 0

HI -,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 1.9

Leaks- median........... 6.0 L/min

Leaks95 %ile.............. 16.8 L/min

Thanks

Di