Untreated OSA and Sleep Medications

[CollegeGirl]

So, we all know the worst thing you can do is leave your OSA untreated...but even worse than that is to be taking sleep medications like Ambien on top of it! I remember multiple conversations here about how, if people with untreated OSA are sleepy because their body wakes them up to start breathing again, the worst thing they can do is take a medication that will NOT let them wake up to start breathing again!

I'm still dealing with a stepfather who refuses to treat his OSA, despite the fact he has health insurance, an Rx, and a cpap sitting in his closet.

I need some actual research or scientific documentation of some kind to just leave for him to think about. Trying to talk to him about it over the last three years has gotten me nowhere, but it's harder for him to argue with documentation.

Anyone know where I can find a study, or something similar, about this?

If this doesn't work my next step is to call his doctor and yell at her for prescribing sleep meds to a patient with untreated OSA.

[Wulfman]

CG.

I don't have an answer to your questions, but I just wanted to say it's good to see you back on the forum.

Would it be a dumb question to ask why he's refusing to treat his OSA? Can you get him on the forum? Maybe some "group therapy" would help.


Best wishes,

Den

[glh]

College Girl,
Your stepfather's doctor can inform him of the consequences of not treating his SA, but he can also google "consequences of sleep apnea" or some like that. The American Sleep Apnea Association, Johns Hopkins Hospital, and othe web cites have stuff about SA. Here is a pretty good summary.
I went from 2001 until about 6 weeks ago without treating my SA. Over that time, I developed type 2 diabetes, congestive heart failure, acid reflex, high blood pressure, and gained about 60 pounds. There is medical evidence that shows SA contributes to diabetes, CHF, high blood pressure, and obesity, and evidence that these contribute to SA. Thus, these medical conditions compound one another. Bottom line is that SA is dangerous and needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Here is an article.

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Next PagePrevious Page Sleep Apnea is Serious
There are many undesirable consequences of having sleep apnea:

* Symptoms -- what a person with sleep apnea feels
* Signs -- what other people can see (and hear)
* Medical consequences -- health problems found in persons with sleep apnea

On this page we emphasize the consequences of sleep apnea in adults. Children can have a somewhat different illness.

Symptoms

Sleepiness is the cardinal symptom of sleep apnea. In some cases it may be all but unnoticeable. In others, it can be incapacitating. Driving may become impossible (and dangerous). Sleep may overtake a person in the middle of a conversation. President Taft had severe sleepiness at certain times in his illness.

Persons with sleep apnea may use other words to describe the way they feel, for example "tired" or "fatigued."

The symptoms of sleep apnea can develop so gradually that a person may not realize they have become ill. When persons begin to benefit from treatment for sleep apnea, it is common for them to realize only then how poor they had been feeling for years beforehand.

Sleepiness occurs because the brain wakes up when significant drops in airflow occur. As a result, the brain does not have long, uninterrupted periods of sleep. Sleep is said to be "fragmented." (Imagine if the telephone rang 5 times each hour you slept.)

Most patients with sleep apnea fall asleep quickly. Some, however, may complain of insomnia.

As we will mention below, sleepiness can cause its own complications, for example automobile crashes and other traumatic injuries.

Sleep apnea can affect the brain in other ways. Some persons will not feel as mentally sharp as their normal. Some persons will have a change in personality. There have been reports of depression associated with sleep apnea.

Signs of Sleep Apnea

Family members, friends, and co-workers may observe some of the consequences of sleep apnea.

Snoring is a common sign of obstructive sleep apnea.

It is often possible to hear other abnormalities in the breathing sounds made by a person with sleep apnea. A pause in breathing sounds may be heard. Patients with obstructive sleep apnea may make choking-like noises. They may also make sounds with an almost explosive character, as their airway suddenly re-opens after being completely obstructed. Persons who grind their teeth during sleep are more likely to have sleep apnea, but it is unknown if this is a consequence or fellow-traveler of sleep apnea.

Some persons with advanced sleep apnea may develop a ruddy complexion.

On some occasions, a physician or dentist may observe the cause of a patient's sleep apnea, including enlarged tonsils or an enlarged tongue or a "disproportionate" jaw size. A disproportionate jaw is one that is too small for the size of the tongue.

Medical Consequences of Sleep Apnea

In some cases, rigorous data are lacking, but experts have at least the impression that obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) occurs more commonly in persons with the following:

* Cardiovascular consequences of OSA:1
o hypertension (high blood pressure)
o heart failure
o atherosclerosis (heart attacks, angina)
o atherosclerosis (stroke)
o atrial fibrillation
o ventricular arrhythmias
o pulmonary hypertension

* Other consequences of OSA:
o trauma (traffic accidents)
o glaucoma
o snoring spouse syndrome
o diminished libido
o in children: illness like attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
o in children: slowed growth

* Other associations with OSA:
o obesity
o obesity syndromes, such as Prader-Willi syndrome
o polycystic ovary disease
o renal failure
o hypothyroidism
o Marfan syndrome
o Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease
o post-polio syndrome
o gastro-esophageal reflux
o worsening of epilepsy

Hypertension and heart failure are strongly linked with sleep apnea. OSA appears to be a cause of hypertension. It appears that sleep can be either a cause or an effect of heart failure. Recent trials have demonstrated that treating sleep apnea in patients with heart failure is beneficial.

Persons with sleep apnea have an elevated risk of motor vehicle collisions. The risk returns to normal when the sleep apnea is successfully treated.

References

1. Wolk R, Somers VK. Cardiovascular consequences of obstructive sleep apnea. Clin Chest Med. 2003;24:195-205.



Next PagePrevious Page Nothing herein should be construed as medical advice. Terms and Conditions. Privacy.
Copyright (C) 2002-2003 by Apneos Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
Last modified 04:45 Pacific on 08 Sep 2003.

[RipVW]

Maybe you could get him to watch this video--the best I've seen to explain to people just what's going on, how untreated apnea events do their damage. I've shared this with quite a few people I know, and it's helped them understand that this is not just a matter of annoying snoring, that it is really life-threatening.
http://www.resmed.com/en-en/clinicians/ ... 40x380.swf

[Fredman]

Maybe I missed reading one of the consequences of not treating Sleep Apnea.... Death! Hate to be so blunt. Not only does SA contribute to all those conditions, people do die in their sleep from untreated SA. See below story about Rapper Pimp C and use of cold medicine and his sleep apnea that apparently led to his early demise.

Famous folks who have died of Sleep Apnea
Reggie White - Green Bay Packers

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2004/12/reg ... rdiac.html


Rapper Pimp C who was 33
The Los Angeles Coroner’s Office released Butler’s autopsy reports yesterday and declared that the rapper had accidentally died “due to promethazine/codeine effects and other unestablished factors." Pimp C suffered from sleep apnea, a condition where a person who is snoring loudly will stop breathing for up to 30 seconds at a time. When a person with sleep apnea takes prescription cold medication the results could be fatal, as was the case with Pimp C. The coroner’s office noted that there were no other traces of drugs in his system and the levels of cold medicine were not high enough to cause an overdose.

http://www.actressarchives.com/news.php?id=9421

[kteague]

Hey CG!!!!! I was just asking about you recently in chat. Sure hope things are well with you.

I've been over on PubMed trying to find something, but no luck yet. If I do run into something, I'll post it.

Good to see you around!

Kathy

[trice54]

Thanks for the link to that video, RipVW..it was really good. I think they ought to show that at the sleep dr.s when people first get their diagnosis.
Trice

[CollegeGirl]

CG.

I don't have an answer to your questions, but I just wanted to say it's good to see you back on the forum.

Would it be a dumb question to ask why he's refusing to treat his OSA? Can you get him on the forum? Maybe some "group therapy" would help.


Best wishes,

Den

Thanks, Den. I check in every now and then to make sure I'm up on what's going on in the CPAP world, so never fear, I'm around. I'm just super busy since I graduated and was forced out into the "real world."

I've posted about my stepfather multiple times (though admittedly quite a while ago). (Ex: viewtopic.php?t=6097.)

He knows he needs to be treated, and admits it, but says he "can't do it." I spent two years trying to help him - giving him lists of good things about CPAP and bad things about OSA, telling him he could die if he didn't treat it, telling him about my experiences and how I'd be more than happy to help him. The last time I talked to him, however, he decided to personally insult me like an eight-year-old. So I decided to drop it. It's his life - if he wants to kill himself, it's his choice.

However, regardless of the fact that he's acting like a child, I still don't want to see him die, so I want to show him that his sleep meds are making a VERY dangerous situation even worse. He says his severe untreated OSA "can't be that bad, because he's never that tired," only YOU'RE NOT TIRED BECAUSE YOUR SLEEP MEDICINES ARE KEEPING YOU FROM WAKING UP TO BREATHE, YOU.... And he drinks energy drinks and takes No Doz like candy, despite his high blood pressure, so obviously he IS tired, anyway.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks to the folks who posted tips on why OSA is dangerous - I already know all that, thanks to cpaptalk.com. What I'm looking for is specifics as to why sleep meds are really dangerous in combination with untreated OSA.

Thanks (and thanks Kathy! good to see you, too!)

[rested gal]

CeeeeeeeeeeeGeeeeeeeeeee!

to see you posting again!!!

[Catnapper]

I wanted to drop in to say hi also. Good to see you CG. Miss you around here.
Catnapper - Joanie

Hope you have better luck with your stepfather. He should be impressed that you care enough to try to save his life.

[tangents]

I'm glad to see you posting too, CG! The "real world" can be brutal, can't it?

Thanks for the ResMed tutorial, RipVW. That was very well done. I would think that anyone who snores would stand up and take note after watching that!

Good luck with your stepdad.

Take Care,
Cathy

[CollegeGirl]

Awww, thanks, Laura, Joanie and Cathy (Oh, and thanks to BasketCat for her cameo appearance. LOL).

I really wish I had the magic words to convince him to do what he needs to for his health, but I can't get him or my mother to do things like balance their checkbooks, either. Living away at college meant I didn't have to face this very often. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

The frustrating part is that I'm pretty sure they'd DO things like balancing their checkbooks if they both got treated (I'm 90% sure my mom has apnea, too, but she's undiagnosed).

My mom says she's getting old, and so her memory loss and sleeping 12-14 hours is a normal part of aging. She's 64. I'm like, "You are WAY too young to throw the rest of your life away because you don't want to know you have a sleep disorder!" She's a head in the sand kind of person. I worry about her.

[rested gal]

My mom says she's getting old, and so her memory loss and sleeping 12-14 hours is a normal part of aging. She's 64.

Uh oh. I'm 63. I sure don't feel like I'm "getting old." But maybe I'm in denial about that!

At any rate, sleeping 12 - 14 hours certainly is NOT a normal part of aging.

I'm like, "You are WAY too young to throw the rest of your life away because you don't want to know you have a sleep disorder!"

You're right.

Regarding both your stepfather and your mother.... "you can lead a horse to water, but.... "

Unfortunately.

At least you know you've tried.