Respironics Response Re Lost DATA

RipVW · Post by **RipVW** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:58 pm

Well, Respironics did respond to my inquiry regarding the missing data each month. They seemed to not fully understand my question?! Below is my question that I sent via their website contact form and their response.

My Question:
I have discovered that the M Series Auto with AFLEX consistently fails to report therapy and compliance data two days out of each month. Moreover, through readings of forum postings by many users of this device, I note that the issue is universal. It appears that ALL of M Series CPAP machines have this issue. Assuming you must be aware of this, I would like to know status of the problem, what is being done to address the issue, and when may owners of the M Series anticipate resolution. Thank you!

Respironics Response:
We have no known issues regarding missing days from the Encore Pro reports. Smart card capable M-series machines record compliance data, but only the Pro and Auto M series devices will record detailed therapy data. This detailed data is only displayed for the most current week, as the smartcards do not have enough memory to store more than that. When the day falls outside of this window, it will simply display compliance usage for that particular day. Compliance usage can go back as much as a year or more depending on data size. Also, the detailed data is not recorded by days, but by sessions. If the machine is shut off for more than one hour, it will roll over to the next session. Therefore, if a patient took an afternoon nap while wearing the machine or the machine turned off during the night, then only 6 days of detailed data will be displayed.

If this explanation is not helpful and you believe a machine not to be functioning as intended, please email us back describing the error in detail.

Thanks, Encore Software Support

So, wondering if any of you might suggest how I make my inquiry more specific. And, perhaps some of you might consider contacting them, too, to present this issue. Do you think they are actually unaware of this?

jsmythe · Post by **jsmythe** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:09 pm

To me, it sounds as though they may honestly not be aware of the problem. Maybe if all of us that have the machine and have experienced the same problem (I have), then maybe they would eventually start looking into the matter. Kinda like a petition works , the more you have reply to them, the more apt they may be to do something. On the other hand, maybe not, but it is worth a shot to try...am glad you contacted them. I will do the same !

RipVW · Post by **RipVW** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:23 pm

Okay, I'm sending this follow-up response to their reply:

I've been using my M Series Auto with AFLEX since October 2007. It is a WONDERFUL machine. But, the data loss, 2 days each month, continues. This is not an issue with the SmartCard capacity. Always, after the two days of no data available for download, the machine starts recording data perfectly again. As I mentioned in my comments below, this "2 days of missing data" is very common--all M Series machine users on the cpaptalk.com sleep apnea forum report this identical issue. Every month, two consecutive days of data are missing when I attempt to upload the data to EncorePro or to EncoreViewer.

Will let all know what they say this time.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:25 pm

As many people on this board alone that have contacted them about this I can't beleave they don't know about it. Some have even sent copies of the data showing the missing days. I think this "I don't understand what you are talking about" answer is a way of saying it is not important enough for us to fix.

I wrote then several months back and got an answer very similar to what you received back.

Jerry

Spottymaldoon · Post by **Spottymaldoon** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:50 am

Rip said:

Moreover, through readings of forum postings by many users of this device, I note that the issue is universal. It appears that ALL of M Series CPAP machines have this issue. Assuming you must be aware of this, I would like to know status of the problem, what is being done to address the issue, and when may owners of the M Series anticipate resolution. Thank you!

Respironics Response:
We have no known issues regarding missing days from the Encore Pro reports.

The first line of their reply tells you the 'culture' you are dealing with. Following Rip's statement that "many users" have posted about the problem, they proceed to say they have "no known issues" - this is bollocks and they might as well reply "we are currently in denial over this issue" and "our policy is to pass the blame back to the customer" which is becoming a universal first line of defense.

Last two nights I have had "the problem" and my error report from Encore reads:

an error has occurred while updating database.
Error Source: Microsoft OLE DB provider for SQ server
Error Number:8000 FFFF

Category: Remote OLE Automation error
Source Dalphin (remote)
Module FMenuIndPatient,frm
Procedure Sub FromSmartCard_Click
Line Number 110
Error No. 717
Description Error 1 - Applicxation-defined or object-defined error atabase connection error

View error context and procedure trace
1: Call FMenuIndPatient,frm : Sub FromSmartCard_Click : ()
2. Trap Runtime error 717, Application-defined or object-defined error : Database connection error

Is this typical of what others are seeing?

Does anybody know when the software was last revised?

Cheers,
Spotty

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:11 am

Spotty, it seems to be in the firmware (the machines operating system). It has been revised (my two machines have Ver.4.01, the newer A-Flex machines have 4.03) but no change in the problem of missing 2 days of data. Encore Pro went from Ver 1.8i.49 to 1.8i.65 and Encore Viewer 1.0 again with no change in the problem.

I suspect it might be something in the clock program which we are not allowed to access or set. I know a lot of people that are a lot smarter with computers than me have looked at it and have not been able to tie it down.

Jerry

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Encore Pro

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:57 am

I've been wondering if when they wrote the firmware to display the information on the screen, that they FUBARed the program somehow. Isn't there also an issue with some of the averages being off? Is that in the 7-day averages?

I was thinking the 2-missing-days issue happened every week and not monthly......or am I mistaken about that?

If a person erases the card every day (after downloading) or after about 5 nights, does the problem still exist? I was under the impression that that would keep it from dropping those nightly details.

Den (not going to gloat because he uses the Pre-M machines)

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:04 am

Spotty -
yours sound more like a problem w/Encore than the Missing Data Problem. Sounds as if you may have a corrupt database - any power interruptions lately? You didn't move the database since installing Encore have you? In any case it sounds as if you are having a completely different problem.

RipVW wrote: Always, after the two days of no data available for download, the machine starts recording data perfectly again.

Rip - my problem presents itself differently. In fact, it appears the data download is happening to Encore. And unless you know the data is missing, you won't even notice a difference.

Examples:
"Confirming again this morning that the compliance data for 1/06/2008 is represented by the green bar but absolutely NO detailed data exist for 1/06/2008. To me that means the card was in the machine & able to record data on that date."

AND
"But then it did it again on Jan 03, 2008

This time it stopped right in the middle of the nite. So the card WAS in, recording fine then bathroom break at 04:30 then nothing. That seems to tell me it is NOT the software (Encore Pro). You have to know I didn't get up at 04:30 after ONLY 4.5 hrs sleep. Who would do that any way? "

Both are from -
viewtopic.php?t=27310&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

RipVW · Post by **RipVW** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:06 am

Nope, it's a monthly issue, not a weekly one. And, if I erase my card, it still occurs. And, if I don't erase my card, after the two days of no data pass, the same card (still unerased) begins tracking/saving all data again normally. So, it seems to be unrelated to the card.

By the way, I use EncoreViewer AND EncorePro, same missing data result with either program

Thanks for not gloating about your Pre-M machine :<)

sleepie · Post by **sleepie** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:29 am

i download everyday and have only not had data 2 days and not together in 7 months--i thought those 2 times were maybe the smartcard not exactly in the slot right for contact......pat

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:33 am

Hey Rip,

"THE PROBLEM" is not manifested identically for all of us! I have sometimes lost 2 days, sometimes one and it's not every month. The differences *could* be due to difference in firmware or it could be something else.

I don't think their response is that bad [ok, everyone - hold those rotten tomatoes!]. I suspect that they think that we are all misunderstanding how the Smartcard recording works. I think that you need to emphasize that we can download the card and be missing the most recent two nights rather than "2 nights". Since sleep docs typically look only at the last day's data on the card, they probably wouldn't have noticed and reported this problem.

Since my missing data is almost always on weekends and I typically sleep longer on weekends, I still suspect that it occurs when I sleep more than 8.5 hours (data overrun?). Just a theory!

I'm not sure you're going to get much more of an answer than you already have.

Mindy

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:44 pm

Spottymaldoon wrote: ... Last two nights I have had "the problem" and my error report from Encore reads:

an error has occurred while updating database.
Error Source: Microsoft OLE DB provider for SQ server
Error Number:8000 FFFF

Category: Remote OLE Automation error
Source Dalphin (remote)
Module FMenuIndPatient,frm
Procedure Sub FromSmartCard_Click
Line Number 110
Error No. 717
Description Error 1 - Applicxation-defined or object-defined error atabase connection error

View error context and procedure trace
1: Call FMenuIndPatient,frm : Sub FromSmartCard_Click : ()
2. Trap Runtime error 717, Application-defined or object-defined error : Database connection error

Is this typical of what others are seeing?

Does anybody know when the software was last revised?

You know, it might help if each of you when you encounter the lost data problem would copy the error message as SpottyMuldoon has done. Present that complete error message w/your experience to Respironics. Bombard them with it. That Error Message "should" at least give their "geeks" something to work w/in finding and correcting the problem. I can't help but wonder if any of the DME suppliers or sleep labs or sleep doctors who download their patients' data cards ever run into this problem and if so you would THINK that they would complain to Respironics about it.

Which brings up yet another thought:

Why not when you encounter the missing data, DON'T ERASE YOUR CARD, but rather take it in to whatever "pro" be that sleep lab, DME supplier or sleep doctor, and ask THEM to download the card so that they DO encounter the error as well. THEY will have more weight than patients will.

And those who have spent the money to BUY the patient version of Respironics software, EncoreViewer, should also complain about "faulty software" even tho the forum members appear to be sure it is not in the software but rather in the firmware. Patients have more of a leg to stand on complaining about faulty patient software than they do complaining about faulty "professinal" software.

Plus, perhaps, you could enlist the assistance of our hosts at cpap.com to interceded and bring this problem to Respironics attention during their apparently close interacting w/Respironics. After all, Johnny has told us that they were able to intercede w/Respironics about providing a patient software.

RipVW · Post by **RipVW** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:47 pm

I've never received an error message. When I upload data from the SmartCard, all behaves as usual. Then, when I open the "detailed report," nothing there for the missing day, same the next day.

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:51 pm

Same here - no message. Compliance data is there for every day but detailed data is missing for the past day or two.

m

Restless1 · Post by **Restless1** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:55 pm

I was missing detailed data also a couple of times. Now I just erase the card every week, and I haven't had a problem with missing detailed data since.