Interesting New News: I can be cured

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:15 pm

with tennis balls.

Yes thats right instead of dealing with my family doc or DME I went to see a specialist today, or at least his Nurse Practioner. According to her my sleep study shows me sleeping on both sides stomacn and back and the only time I had major was REM on my back. She said that if I train myself to not sleep on my back I could be machineless. So Im very excited she gave me a ball and a piece of PVC to slide it onto my night shirt so well see. SHe said it may take 4-6 wks to get use to it so I may try a night or 2 and if its not easy wait until after the holidays. However I am primarily a stomahc /side sleeper so it should be easy. I would like to look at that report again though because Im not certain I had any REM in all the other positions...I will ask her on Monday. She seemed very confident and knew her stuff so Im guessing theres something on the study that support her, but Ill double check to be safe.

If it pans out WOOHoo!

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:20 pm

And on her information, you are willing to bet your life. She's not betting hers. Jim

If it was only so easy.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:46 pm

Seems I have heard this before. Sorry, I won't take any bets on this. But, Good Luck I hope it works for you.

Jerry

CarrieS · Post by **CarrieS** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:17 pm

Oh really? I thought maybe I was a special case but sounds like this is something people have been told and have fail ? Id love to hear any stories, info or input on it please. Thanks Carrie

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:29 pm

This looks like a good time to see if your data at home confirms what you've been told. The hard part is knowing if you went on your back during your sleep. Just thinking... maybe if you place on your bed a piece of tape with sticky side up that would stick to your shirt if you layed on it.

I am not at all familiar with your machine. With a regular auto I would think lowering the starting pressure and seeing if the pressure indeed stayed lower when not on the back.

Still wouldn't answer the REM question in the side and stomach positions, but one would think at home over a period of time you'd hit REM sometimes.

I don't blame you for not wanting to use the machine if not necessary - shoot, who would? I just wouldn't have a lot of confidence in one night of data. Hopefully though you can confirm it - wouldn't that be great!

Kathy

track · Post by **track** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:16 pm

There is no doubt that some people are position sensitive to apneas. I sleep with a ball about ten times harder and twice as big as a tennis ball to keep me off my back. I believe I too would do ok if I only slept on my side....apneas are short and minimal when on my side. However without that ball on my back, I roll on my back several times during the night and never know it...then all hell breaks loose when it comes to apneas. I seriously doubt I can train myself to stay on my side all night without a prop on my back.

I don't get what the PVC is for...please explain.

wabmorgan · Post by **wabmorgan** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:21 pm

Flat on your back That usually makes apnea worse

I don't think I would listen to that advice... nor would I want to trust my life to a bunch of tennis balls

FreeLancer74 · Post by **FreeLancer74** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:44 pm

Wait, I thought that life could easily begin with a pair of balls and... wait ... never mind.

wabmorgan · Post by **wabmorgan** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:49 pm

yeah.... but those aren't tennis balls.

napagirl · Post by **napagirl** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:38 am

Hi Carrie,

I, too, have positional sleep apnea. I never did snore, only started choking and obstructing when on my back. There are different degrees of apnea, and position does make a big difference. I have seen many articles on sewing a pocket in PJ's and putting in tennis ball to avoid back sleeping.

I, myself, tried this upon the advice of my dr., but my body stubbornly wanted to get onto my back, so the results were disrupted sleep and extremely sore back muscles! But I have heard of this working for some with mild, positional OSA.

The problem is the only way you'll know it is working is to either have a sleep study with tennis ball in place, or to buy an APAP machine with smart card that records your apneas and desats to see if they are still happening. You could be unaware for awhile that you are having apneas, until the effects (like daytime tiredness, headache, etc) build up over time. OSA can also cause damage to the heart and lungs, so avoiding apneas are a GOOD thing, even if you feel fine during the day.

Here's an article on OSA with mention of self-care and tennis balls at the bottom of the article:

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00148.html

I suppose it is worth a try.. .let us know how it goes!!!

PS.. also, don't drink any alcohol within 3hrs of bedtime. I am a wine afficianado, and notice I would get my apneas when I had wine after dinner. When I don't, my apneas are either non-existant or very mild and few.

justplainbill · Post by **justplainbill** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:51 am

I think that it would be a good idea to review your complete study report for more information about the results. I would want to make sure that you were not having hypopneas or airflow restrictions while on your side and to make sure that your study showed REM while on your side.

I have known some people what have reported some success with the tennis balls or similar contraption, but I have heard from others who did not have success that way.

I must also confess that the tennis ball contraption seems to me like an adaptive device to address a problem rather than a true cure and that given a choice I would choose CPAP (but I know many people have had way worse problems in adapting to CPAP than I have ever had and I would leave each to choose their own way).

Keep us posted on how you make out.
Best wishes,
Bill

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:37 pm

Personally, I would demand a prescription for a pulse ox monitor to make sure she is right. I don't doubt that there are people for whom this is true, but REM is when apnea is at its worste and if you didn't go into REM in the other positions it seems doubtful to me that there is certainty that you won't have significant apnea in that position.

I completely understand why you have your hopes up. I would react the same way.

Don't mistake confidence for competence. Like others have said, it could be deadly, and as a hopeful cpap patient it would be really hard to discern between the two.

I'm glad you are going back to ask more questions!

jen

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:51 pm

Anonymous wrote:with tennis balls.

Yes thats right instead of dealing with my family doc or DME I went to see a specialist today, or at least his Nurse Practioner. According to her my sleep study shows me sleeping on both sides stomacn and back and the only time I had major was REM on my back. She said that if I train myself to not sleep on my back I could be machineless. So Im very excited she gave me a ball and a piece of PVC to slide it onto my night shirt so well see. SHe said it may take 4-6 wks to get use to it so I may try a night or 2 and if its not easy wait until after the holidays. However I am primarily a stomahc /side sleeper so it should be easy. I would like to look at that report again though because Im not certain I had any REM in all the other positions...I will ask her on Monday. She seemed very confident and knew her stuff so Im guessing theres something on the study that support her, but Ill double check to be safe.

If it pans out WOOHoo!

Carrie,

How OLD is this person that seems so confident? The old "tennis balls in the nightshire" gimmic was something that they came up with years ago to decrease a person's snoring. You could accomplish the same thing with wedge pillows or something else to keep you on your side.
What pressures are you running in your VPAP III? Do you have Centrals? Is your machine an ST version? (I looked back through your posts but couldn't determine just what you had)

To reiterate what Jen said: "Don't mistake confidence for competence."

There are too many confident idiots running loose in the medical professions.

Den

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:03 pm

The field is relatively new. Most NP's I know (I have several friends who have the degree) or have seen, appear to be 20's to mid 30's.

What is her field of specialty? Honestly, unless it is sleep medicine, I'd be wary. Personally I'm not even sure I'd trust my General Practitioner or even my ENT with absolutes like this without a LOT of data (about me personally, not some study) to back it up.

Jen

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:29 pm

Interesting as I live in Missouri in a rural community and so there are several NP in this area. I would peg several of them in their mid 40's or later. In fact the nurse practicioner at the local community health center has been doing it since 1984 (I went there for prenatal care with you my youngest daughter) and she was a NP then.

I know that my husband had an aunt that had a friend that was diagnosed with sleep apnea back years ago. I am unsure if they even had cpaps when she was diagnosed. She was told the tennis ball theory and swore by it. She sewed pockets on the back of all of her pj's to hold the balls. I am unsure if she had additional sleep studies to confirm that the tennis balls worked. She worked in a large hospital as a nurse in Kansas City and was working there when she was diagnosed. Wish she were here so I could pick her brain.

I would be very leery of taking it at face value that it would be a cure -- especially if I were on anything except a straight cpap with a really low pressure. Rooster is an example of one that tends to need a really high number on his back but is able to get by with a much lower pressure on his side -- but tests have proven he still needs a cpap on his side if I read his post correctly.

I feel that it (tennis balls) definitely could help -- but am skeptical of a "cure" with it.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP

Interesting New News: I can be cured

Interesting New News: I can be cured

Good time for some experimenting

Re: Interesting New News: I can be cured

Mask

Additional Comments: Strictly a side sleeper

Mask